Saturday, July 23, 2005

Chevrolet Presents: Come Together and Worship open letter from Steve Camp

I wrote an open letter to the CCM Industry almost three years ago concerned over Chevrolet's "owning and funding" a worship tour as part of their marketing strategery to reach evangelical buyers with their automobile product line (this gave a whole new meaning to the phrase, "Corporate Worship."). Though a few years old now, the issues sadly remain the same. The world is finding favor and much "legal tender" these days; profiting from ministry... worship being no exception. The only two things left in the church that do command a fee today are: communion and baptism. With the secular ownership of Christian music, publishing houses, bookstore chains, etc., it is easy to conclude, in the powerful words of my favorite attorney, Al Pacino, "something really, really wrong is going on here."

Let me your thoughts... I value them highly.
"Like a Rock,"

Dear Friends in the Christian Music Industry:

I am involved as a contributor on a radio forum, through email, that discusses and addresses important issues facing us as Christians in music, media, the church, and the culture. Last Friday, the key issue on the forum was concerning the "Chevrolet Presents: Come Together and Worship" tour-a very important topic worthy of our discussion. I posted a response to that issue. I thought this forum was a closed forum for those invited to contribute and candidly converse about any issue presented. It has come to my attention, that unbeknownst to me, that post of mine pertaining to this Chevrolet Worship Tour was distributed this week, by someone whom I do not know and without my permission, throughout the CCM industry and select media outlets. I have received numerous emails and phone calls about my thoughts on this matter as represented in that post and therefore, I wanted to address you directly so that I am not taken out of context or misrepresented by the editorial comments of others.

This is also difficult, for it involves two artists and a pastor that I have come to admire and thank the Lord for in their respective callings. At the outset, I want to affirm my love and prayers for Michael W. Smith, Third Day, and Max Lucado. They have ministered to my family and me through their work and I appreciate what they do as individuals for Christ and His glory. The arduous thing is, though this issue is not about them specifically, they do share culpability for their willingness to associate themselves and financially profit from a Worship Tour that at its foundation has serious biblical concerns.

It is my desire in the following letter to try to summarize those concerns as to why this event does not function according to, nor is in practice consistent with the Scriptures; and, therefore, cannot be honoring or glorifying to the Lord Jesus Christ. My one, true, singular objective is and has always been to ask-what does the Lord say, as revealed in His Word, about all that we do for His names sake? What does the Lord give as guidelines as to how we do what we do in the arts for His glory, for the good of His people, and in the evangelization of those without Christ?

I am concerned that there exists in CCM today a pervasive growing attitude of unteachableness, unaccountability, and a lack of submissiveness to the Word of God and the authority of the local church. It seems today that anyone who challenges the CCM industry as to its current practices and alliances according to the standard of God's Word is labeled as divisive, condemning, and unloving. While those that are constantly operating outside of the purview of God's Word are labeled as innovative, visionary, and kind? Tolerance is not a spiritual gift; it is the distinguishing mark of postmodernism; and sadly, it has permeated the very fiber of Christianity. Why is it that those who have no biblical convictions or theology to govern and direct their actions are tolerated and the standard or truth of God's Word rightly divided and applied is dismissed as extreme opinion or legalism?

None of us have arrived at our sanctification; none of us get it right all the time, do we? That is why we need each other and the dialogue that ensues; even if it's uncomfortable and makes us squirm a bit from the status quo of our everyday lives. This Worship Tour with Chevrolet affords us that opportunity to dialogue together again about important issues facing CCM. And for each of us to take inventory of our spiritual lives and examine with careful scrutiny all our ways and practices as how we function in Christian music and in the general marketplace as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. The ends don't justify the means-it is the truth of God's Word that determines that. My prayer is that none of us will miss this divine occasion to appraise our lives, our business practice, and alliances in light God's glory and His divine truth. I am not coming to you with a hammer, but with an open hand desiring your fellowship and honest discussion.

In light of the above, this letter will serve two distinct purposes:

1. To list the biblical concerns for this Worship Tour that GM/Chevrolet is hosting.
2. To ask you four key questions for your Scriptural consideration on this issue.



The fact that this is an "evening of worship and evangelism" -- their language, not mine -means that we have now actually digressed to charging people money to worship the Lord.

Jesus said, "Freely you received; freely you must give" (Matthew 10:8). The Lord knew the temptation for money that the disciples would face. He had just given them divine power to have "authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness" (Matthew 10:1). With that kind power, if the disciples wanted to charge money for their services, they could have been independently wealthy in a very short time. That is precisely why the Lord told them, "Do not acquire gold, or silver, or copper for your money belts, or a bag for your journey, or even two tunics, or sandals, or a staff; for the worker is worthy of his support" (Matthew 10:9). In other words the Lord will supply our needs when we are about His work (Cf, 2 Cor. 2:17, 1 Timothy 6:5-10; Acts 20:32-35; Revelation 22:17).


2 Corinthians 6:14-16a - "Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What harmony has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols?"

Undiscerning believers think it a profound ministry strategy to join forces with unregenerate people in forwarding the gospel. Unwittingly, they harness Jesus Christ, the Worthy One, with Belial or Satan, the worthless one, in an unholy alliance-the very essence of being unequally yoked (2 Corinthians 6:15). We are not, however, called to isolationism. We are called to be salt and light in the world. We are to be faithful witnesses of God's mercy, love and grace to the lost and dying. We are to cultivate personal relationships with unbelievers, love our neighbor and our enemy, serve them and share our faith with them. (Matthew 5:13-16; 40-44) We are to be in the worldÂ…but not of it-and this is our greatest challenge. Separation is not being divorced from contact with the world, but from complicity with and conformity to it. (1 John 2:15-17)


This is an obvious by-product of being unequally yoked with non-believers in the ministry of the gospel. Allowing the world to sponsor and partner in the work of the ministry is foreign to any biblical writer. But this Worship Event is unparalleled, even when comparing this in light of church history. I don't' know of any other singular event that has allowed the world to conduct its business or trade where the worship of the Lord is to be given and the gospel proclaimed. Though the highest and greatest context of worship is that which occurs within the local church with proper ecclesiastical authority (1 Timothy); I do recognize that whenever the people of God are gathered together and they are offering songs of praise to the Lord from a pure heart; where the Word of God is clearly preached and expounded and His gospel proclaimed, worship does occur. But it is not the place for the world to conduct their business-"to sell cars" as the Chevy Rep has stated. Has the church traded the great theme of "Holy, Holy, Holy" and adopted as their new song of praise, "Like a rock?" (Cf, Matthew 21:12-13; Leviticus 10:1-3)


3 John v.5-8 - "Beloved, it is a faithful thing you do in all your efforts for these brothers, strangers as they are, 6 who testified to your love before the church. You will do well to send them on their journey in a manner worthy of God. 7 For they have gone out for the sake of the Name, accepting nothing from the Gentiles. 8 Therefore we ought to support people like these, that we may be fellow workers for the truth."

This texts establishes a foundational principal for how we are to function in ministry in relation to financial integrity and non-believers. That is, we cannot ask for, solicit funds from, or proactively seek financial support from "the Gentiles"-nonbelievers in Christ. Why? The only thing that a nonbeliever must be approached with from any Christ-centered ministry or Christian is with the glorious good news of the gospel of grace found in Christ Jesus our Lord for the salvation of their souls. Even the Apostle Paul says to the church at Ephesus, "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified. I have coveted no one's silver or gold or clothes" (Acts 20:32-33). (Cf, Hebrews 10:29; John 3:36; Luke 12:47-48).

Question: Has the worship due our Lord been turned into entertainment; the gospel of grace turned into trade; the gathering of God's people turned into a place of worldly business; and ministry, turned into only money? This is sin beloved...there is no other word for it.

Can Christian music ever be fully embraced by this world and find acceptance in the general market place or corporate sponsorship arena if it is being true to the gospel and person of Jesus Christ? You know the answer--no way. The simple fact that Chevrolet senses no incongruity or disparity from the believers who orchestrated this tour is proof enough that the message that will be or has been presented, poses no offense to them. "Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who disbelieve, 'the stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,' and [Christ is] 'A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense'" (1 Peter 2:7-8). If the gospel they hear and the worship they see, will not confront them to the severity of their sin, the holiness of God, or their eternal perdition, and that salvation is by grace alone, through Christ aloneÂ… We cannot serve both God and mammon. We cannot preach repentance from sin and salvation by grace alone on one hand to an unbeliever, and then turn right around and ask for an exorbitant amount of money to fund that same ministry.

Paul says, "By the terror of the Lord we persuade men..." (2 Cor. 5:11a). Have we forgotten that? "Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God's word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone's conscience in the sight of God... 5 For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake." (2 Cor. 4:1-2,5). Do we really believe that? "To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work" (Titus 1:15-16). Are we aware of that?

I understand the tension that this discussion can foster in each of us. I am not saying these things, beloved, because I've done it right all these years in CCM (25 years next February); far from it. I was on the same road as much of the industry is on today, and because of some strong words of exhortation from my family and close friends, I began the painful, yet, necessary process in my life to examine everything in light of Scripture. As Paul says, "test all things, hold fast to what is good; abstain from all forms of evil" (1 Thess. 5:21-22). This began a wonderful journey of Bible study and the veracious reading of commentaries and books to look hard and honest at what the Word of God teaches about Christian Music Ministry (CMM). In this process of discovery, I came to a critical crossroads: would I abandon my current practice and view of things in light of what the Word of God teaches, or would I continue to justify my own agendas and moorings irrespective of Scripture? For a season, I hardened my heart against the Lord and His truth and He broke me in my sinfulness. I repented and His grace has sustained me in this journey ever since. Maybe you can relate to this too? With that in mind, here are some questions that I would humbly ask you to consider in this ongoing dialogue about the future, purpose, function, and commerce of CCM.


(Note: Please define your answers biblically and guard against proof-texting [taking a verse out of context to make it mean whatever you want it to mean to fit the issue at hand.] This is to help me and others understand more fully why you are doing what you are doing in this venture. Thank you.).

1. Could you define biblically where the Lord instructs, permits, condones, commands partnership with the world for the ministry, worship, and the proclamation of His gospel? And then, giving the ability to conduct their business or trade in the midst of that ministry?

2. Scripture says, ""For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing"; but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles"; "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you"; "So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe." Question: Why is Chevrolet not offended? Why do they feel "at home selling cars" in the midst of the worship of God and in the hearing of the gospel? Why do they feel an affinity in partnering with believers at a Worship Event so that they can sell more cars? Why is there no tension of conscience, consternation of objectives, and disparity of goals?

3. Can you demonstrate biblically where you have the right to seek out funding, financial sponsorships, and partnerships from unbelievers in the advancement of the gospel and the worship of the Lord?

4. And lastly, how do you define worship biblically? What are the scriptural guidelines that we should use to measure our actions in these kind of events if we are truly honoring the Lord with genuine worship? How is the Lord approached as holy, by Chevrolet's presence; how is He glorified before all the people by this partnership? (Leviticus 10:3).

Thank you for taking the time to listen and for allowing me the privilege of sharing these thoughts with you. I pray, that we will not approach the world to seek funding from them, but that we unashamedly will share the blessed hope of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ to them. May we stop "playing marbles with diamonds" in Christian Music and honor the Lord with genuine ministry for His glory again.

His Unworthy Servant in His Unfailing Love,

Steve Camp
Colossians 1:9-14


Joey said...

I am stricken. God forgive us.

Fantastic blog and website. Looking eagerly forward to more.

JRODFOSS said...

Concern #1
When I read this I cringed. It was only a few years ago that I attended a Michael W Smith and Third Day concert with Max Lucado in Spokane, WA. I believe it was there Come Together and worship tour that you mention in your article. I grew up listening to Michael W Smith and Third Day has become one of my favorite Christian Bands. Before this concert I had attend one Michael concert and at least three concerts by Third Day all of which were good experiences. However, the come together concert was very different. The concert which we paid at least $35 a ticket for was advertised as a Worship service. It has always stuck with me that we were charged a premium fee to do something that I would hardly call Worship. In fact several comments were made that left me feeling that we were at an Ecumenical movement rather than a worship service. It is sad that so many Christians are so badly taught that they rely on Christian musicians to tell them what Worship is. Tomorrow I plan to attend my church and I plan to worship God in Spirit and in Truth and I wont have to buy a ticket either.

Great blog. Keep up the good work.

Alexander M Jordan said...

Dear Steve:

Your open letter really touches me, because of the passion you express as you challenge yourself and others to honor the Lord in pursuing the call of God on our lives.

And I appreciate very much your commitment to issue this word humbly, yet with unapologetic loyalty to the standards of the Word of God.

A little personal background: I believe that God gave me gifts in music and writing, as part of His call on my life to be a Christian musician/communicator. But I have been held me back from really bringing them forth. I think that fears of how I would accomplish everything without compromise, and wanting to be very certain before moving forward (fear of failure) has been part of this. Yet I also realize that God has orchestrated this time of waiting for the reason of building up my character in maturity.

On the one hand I feel frustrated because I feel that talents God has given me haven't yet been used very deeply; on the other hand, I can also be thankful that I did not advance too far along into music with wrong motives and being unprepared in character.

So though I am not yet working within the industry, I am really inspired by your words tonight. They help me to remember that I can be true to God as I develop and use my gifts for Him. I don't have to fear that I will of necessity have to compromise-- because by the Lord's strength, I can make choices that honor Him.

I noticed that like me, you are a new blogger. Welcome to the blogosphere! My blog, by the way, is called Jordan’s View and I've been blogging since February.

I initially began blogging as a kind of creative outlet, but I have become more and more inspired to view it as ministry. I find that blogging helps to sharpen both my thinking and my writing, and on my blog I have examined our culture in the light of my understanding of Scripture. Isn't it great how blogging provides opportunity to present Christian ideas into the marketplace so instantaneously?

It is my ambition and hope, that as by God's grace I grow in skills, knowledge and character, that God will enlarge my influence. My dream is to have a website through which I could use my music and writing to touch the lives of many with the Christian message. I have much learning and growing to do. I am trying to refine my theological beliefs, to see if I can integrate a reformed way of thinking with an open attitude towards charismatic experience (for the past few years my wife and I have belonged to a charismatic church, that is very strong in the Word).

Anyway, I just wanted to thank you so much for this exhortation. It is a challenge that at the same time encourages and inspires. It makes me want to be a more godly blogger and musician!

Blessings in Christ!


Jeremy Weaver said...

As a 'Chevy' guy, I feel my heart being torn in two.
Just kidding. Once again the common refrain is sung by Jeremy, "I agree."

Sparks said...

My first post to a blog anywhere...

Promise Keepers, Women of Faith, Beth Moore and many more who charge admission to their events.

As I see the ever rising number of events that Christians line up to attend, I have to wonder if the money from all those $50 to $90 tickets could have been better spent in the local church, ministering to the community.

If the members of the local body feel a need to go to Promise Keepers or Women of Faith to worship, grow spiritually or fellowship - what is that saying about how well the local body leadership is doing in feeding the flock? In these days of seeker-friendly everything has the local body become so shallow that depth must be pursued outside the local church along with the money spent on tickets, cd's, t-shirts, popcorn, soda, buses, parking..does it end somewhere?

And just how deep can these events be, based upon the ecumenical nature of not offending anyone who may be attending?

Thanks Steve for Audience One website and this blog. I've been reading for several months and find your commentary right on and your passion refreshing.

Bhedr said...

Wow I can't believe you used that verse in 3 John. Steve this is the whole pivitol reason as to why I appreciate you so much. I never really knew much about you until I did a quere on Tozer in regards to Worhsip and Entertainment. God bless you brother. We are drunk indeed and men like you are waking us up. I know the CCM mindset is to communicate with the language of today but it seems for the most part they are doing the exact opposite: innoculating us into that complacent state you talked about above. I just don't understand why others don't see it. I used to run under the theory I gathered from Stairway to Heaven's lyrics, "It's whispered that soon if we all call the tune then the piper will lead us to reason.." but you blew that theory out of the water. I'm still examining all of this. i will be praying for you. I know the Lord is speaking because over the past 3 years I've been trying to find my way in this. I used to let anything that came down the pike in and was mindnumb in regards to this and then I had to go through that same crucible of admitting that something was wrong. I never really listened to much of your music so I'm not a fan of that; but I am a fan of your stand and praise God for your boldness.I did like that new CD you had in the background of that interview. Both my wife and I were tremendously blessed and moved by your humility. It was healing. Keep sounding the trumpet brother and pray for me, cause I'm still finding my way in all of this "Purple Haze". I think you are right to focus on the love of money. It is the root. I do feel that the apostle Paul also said that all things are lawful but not expedient and I don't want to lay any burdens down cause I'm still a fan of rock and roll but I think...well when I hear Joni sing her hymns with a voice born out of affliction...It just speaks to me in a way that feeds me and sobers me up to serve. maybe it's all in my mind but I think it would be helpful to many of us to focus on hymns. I don't know; I just want to help folks. It helps me but maybe that's just me. Listen to hymns folks. Don't give up on them. I think there is a time to dance and sing but I also think we are losing our silent reverance and that fear of the Lord that causes us to fall on our faces.

littlegal_66 said...

The last Christian music event I shelled out far to much to ticketmaster to attend was in 1995 or '96. It was here in Nashville at the Ryman: "Sam's Place." For those who aren't familiar with it, "Sam's Place" was a series of Christian concerts which were held on Sunday evenings, (no less), for two or three different seasons. Each Sunday night concert featured multiple artists for an evening Christian music.

On the evening I attended, I don't recall an opportunity for sinners to come to the Lord, only a bunch of clean music. I sat there that night, convicted, and amazed that I spent $30 to stay out of church and be entertained. I gazed around at the other attendees, who, like myself, skipped services at their own churches to be there, and I remember thinking, "Where are we going with this?"

Ten years later, the descent continues, and I'm still unsure where Christian music is going to end up, if Steve's admonishments aren't taken to heart by the industry.

Jus Divinum said...

Wow, Mr. Camp, this was a very powerful letter, and I commend you in writing it. You raise some great concerns.

In the interest of mutual encouragement, let me just say that I especially agree with your point "2. PARTNERING WITH UNBELIEVERS IN THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY." You hit the nail on the head here, I think.

Reformer said...

Well said, Steve. I read this letter for the first time 18 months ago before I invited you participate in our Men's Retreat. It was upon reading this letter that I was convinced God would use you to bring repentance to the CCM industry - even if by one person at a time! These are great points.

I would encourage commenter "Jay" to differentiate between charging money for worshipping and offering extra-church ministry development. For example, MWS wants to have a worship service and charge $50 a head. That is a huge problem, as Steve so carefully deliniated. However, I do not have a problem paying a registration fee to spend a week at Grace Communithy Church for the Shepherd's Conference or to spend three days at Parkside Church for the Basic's Conference. These men are not charging me to worship in their presence, they are offering me additional instruction for my edification - no difference really than my tuition for seminary (which I know Steve also has a problem with - at least Steve is VERY consistent).

I want to be Biblical not pragmatic; however, I do see a distinction between a conference and worship service. There is a difference between entertainment (we pay $10 to go to a movie theater - or $3 to rent one) and a worship service.

Thanks for your boldness and forthright attempt to faithfully and consistently apply Scripture to your field of minsitry, Steve. You are a joy to my soul!

I don't think five days go by before I listen to your DESIRING GOD CD. I especially appreciate "Unfailing Love" and "The Crucible of Grace."

Grace to you my friend!

Sparks said...

Okay, several hours removed from my post I can see your point of view. I encourage pastors (such as yourself) to pursue such conferences- for the purpose is for your continued growth so that you may lead your flock to a deeper relationship with Jesus Christ.

I don't see how those Pastoral growth conferences compare to the Promise Keepers, Women of Faith or CCM concert type events.

Reformer said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Reformer said...


Point taken! I concur that there is a significant difference in both scope and depth of the Shepherds Conference at GCC and the local PK rally at some sports stadium. I would not waste my time or money at a PK event. However, the stated purpose of the PK rally is to encourage and revive men. Questions of methods and motives notwithstanding (I can't believe I am defendng PK), They do not bill themselves as a "worship service." They are charging people for their "teachng" and motivation, much like MacArthur does at the GCC Shepherd's Conference. Again, PK, Women of Faith, etc... are not worth your money or time, let me make that clear. But their stated purposes are similar to other conferences that we would embrace - like Pastor's Confereences.

My point is simply this, IF we condemn PK and company FOR CHARGING MONEY or "PROFITEERING" from their "ministry," we can't give other conferences a free pass.

Steve, would you suggest that NO ONE under ANY circumstnaces should charge a fee for "ministry?" Does this include preaching conferences, evangelistic crusades, etc... If so, does that include seminaries, which "minister" by teaching theology (presumably)?

What is the distinction? Is there a distinction? Is there not a difference between offering resources (such as conferences or books) and requiring someone to "pay" to "worship" with you?

littlegal_66 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
littlegal_66 said...

My goodness, what a can of worms that has been opened here--it's great, isn't it?

I think one of the reasons the powers that be think they need corporate sponsorship is their stubborn insistence on mimicking the world and its music. They have a huge budget, because they want to go overboard with large scale special effects, giant trinitrons, etc. Why do they feel as though they have to compete with Britney's stage designer?

Look, I don't need an elaborately produced stageshow, with an extravagant pyrotechnic display or other grandiose effects to worship our God in song. Just some theologically sound lyrics of worship delivered by a Christian vocalist who daily strives to live a Godly life--that's more than sufficient. (Just ask anyone who has ridden with me in my car!)

Sparks said...


Defend PK? Never! :)

Perhaps my concern shouldn't be that Christians are paying to attend "Christian" events, but rather that such events are being attended with no discernment of whether or not the event is fulfilling Scripture.

Reformer said...

Jay, I agree with you 100%. Steve certainly has a point regarding all the profiteering in ministry. But a greater concern is the so-called ministries themselves. Are they teaching sound doctrine, do the even fall within the scope of what God has called the Church to do?

Good point!

Bhedr said...

You cannot serve God and General Motors. Sometimes I wonder when the scourge is gonna come. I pray we're not anywhere near it lest we recieve of the plague.

Tim Wirth said...

Hi Campi: Miss ya bro thanks for all you do to promote Body of Christ health.
To take all this even into idolatry I was sent this link. I thought it was a gag since it was sent to me from my friends at The Door magazine.
But its the real deal check this link.
I was reading Amos 6 :5-7 "You sing idle songs to the sound of the harp, and you fancy yourselves to be great musicians, as King David was. You drink wine by the bowlful, and you perfume yourselves with exotic fragrances, caring nothing at all that your nation is going to ruin. Therefore you will be the first to be led away as captives. Suddenlt, all your revelry will end."
As these musicians continue to want to live the lifestyle success has bought them to they will continue to compromise unaware that they are really already captive.
Peace and Blessings
Tim Wirth

DOGpreacher said...

Wow!...This is great! To all of you commenting, what a joy to see the 'remnant' who will say "No, that is not worship nor praise, but a foul stench to His nostrils". I was a drummer in the 'business' for a time (early to late 80's), and I saw so many (even back then) calling themselves
'Ministries', when they were at best babes in Christ, and at worst they were the ones who will say "didn't we play the hottest music in your name?", and He will say, "Depart from Me.....I never knew you". Steve, I will pray for you. Stand strong in His might, and He will give you a forehead of stone, harder than flint, for they are an obstinate, impudent, and rebellious people (Ezekiel 2 & 3). It's time for men to preach "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand". Thank you for being obedient to His call, Steve. I am...
Grateful for grace,
Gregg Hall