My dear friend, James White, is on a cruise as we speak with Dr. R.C. Sproul ministering (and suffering) for the gospel in the Hawaiian regions of the globe. Due to the recent popularity of presidential hopeful, Mitt Romney, and quite a few emails I have received inquiring about the Mormon faith, I was going to post something today comparing the false heretical claims of Mormonism and genuine biblical Christianity concerning the foundational issue of the natures of Christ and Lucifer. But when I saw that "Dr. J" had begun to comment on this already I thought I would direct you to his most excellent thoughts.
This issue will continue to heat up over the next year as Mitt Romney gains more political clout and marketplace acceptance (though my money is on Fred Thompson) and his particular "faith based beliefs" become more spotlighted. Mr. Romney seems like a decent and likeable fellow; but we should pray for him that he would come to the Lord Jesus Christ of the Bible for the salvation of his soul. Politics aside, our primary concern for him at COT is eternity--not the election.
I really love to see a man of God in his wheelhouse doing what the Lord has equipped him to do. This part of the body of Christ is very grateful for this gifted brother.
Here is the following article by James--enjoy.
We preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord
Steve
2 Cor. 4:5-7
THE SUBJECT: Are Jesus and Lucifer spirit brothers?
THE ANSWER: Just finished a quick segment with Todd Friel on Way of the Master. He had called yesterday when a Mitt Romney proponent had challenged him on his statement that Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers. So we did the "Todd Friel Express Interview"® thing, but I only got to read a single statement actually substantiating the doctrine, since I had to do some basic "Mormonism 101" stuff again to lay out the basic LDS doctrine of God. In any case, as the "spin machine" is at full throttle, and sadly, so few know almost anything about Mormonism, here are some quotes on the fact that Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers according to Mormonism:
Thus it is shown that prior to the placing of man upon the earth, how long before we do not know, Christ and Satan, together with the hosts of the spirit-children of God, existed as intelligent individuals, possessing power and opportunity to hoose the course they would pursue and the leaders whom they would follow and obey (James Talmage, Jesus the Christ, p. 8)Compare these statements from LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie in his book, Mormon Doctrine:
The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this spirit-brother of Jesus desparately tried to become the Savior of mankind (Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15---this book was "written and published under the direction of the General Priesthood Committee of the Council of the Twelve of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints").
The devil...is a spirit son of God who was born in the morning of pre-existence (p. 192)....Christ is the Firstborn, meaning that he was the first Spirit Child born to God the Father in pre-existence (p. 281)....Christ, the Firstborn, was the mightiest of all the spirit children of the Father (p. 590).The June, 1986 edition of the Ensign Magazine, p. 25, the official publication of the LDS Church, had this question, "How can Jesus and Lucifer be spirit brothers when their characters and purposes are so utterly opposed?" The response provided included the following:On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to some---especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations. But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers....But as the Firstborn of the Father, Jesus was Lucifer's older brother.So anyone denying the reality that Jesus and Lucifer are spirit-brothers is, in the words of the LDS Church, ignorant of latter-day revelations. Or, they are spinning things and hoping they are talking to folks who don't know any better and they can get away with it. That's sadly a possibility. Of course, we should be quite clear in what our objection to this doctrine is, and what it means. Jesus and Lucifer are spirit-brothers in Mormonism because we are all spirit-brothers and sisters of them both. We are all spirit offspring of an exalted man from another planet, Elohim. The objection, then, is that this belief denies the unique and eternal deity of Christ, not that the character of Lucifer is somehow the issue at this point.
I will be continuing my series "Mormonism 101" as it is painfully clear that there is a tremendous need for it. And please realize that both Letters to a Mormon Elder and Is the Mormon My Brother? are coming back into print from Solid Ground! I hope to have links up to the pre-publication specials on those when I get back to Phoenix early next week.
12 comments:
Steve,
You may already be familiar with the site called Utah Lighthouse. Their purpose statement is: "...to document problems with the claims of Mormonism and compare LDS doctrines with Christianity." The resources section is linked at: http://www.utlm.org/navtopicalindex.htm
Thanks for all your hard work and encouragement!
Dan
I've heard defenses of this doctrine that indicate that the brotherhood is metaphorical, and meant to convey the same sort of typology that calls Christ the "new Adam". The idea isn't that Christ and Satan are of the same nature, but that Satan is, in the modern antonymous sense, the "anti-Christ." Opposite, but not equal.
However, with the extremely heterodox Mormon view of the nature of God and the Trinity, the line between created and eternal seems to get blurry. Then, too, with their continuing revelation, it's hard to know what really is and isn't Mormon doctrine, even for their leadership. They haven't even had long enough to have a "test of time" for doctrines to pass.
I live in a heavily Mormon community, so I get exposed to a lot of this. They make good friends and neighbors, and I intend to vote for Romney, but their theology is more interesting as a curiosity than anything to take seriously.
Joel
Spoken like a true syncretist. I am dissapointed, of course not nescessariy surprised, the mormon church is in line with the doctrine of works to merit salvation just as the RCC is. The Mormon church absolutely without doubt is heretical in so many ways that only the most ignorant of the truth of God's word can not discern, or perhaps they just do not have the H.S., then they can not discern rightly at all. Lastly, perhaps trivial but, does it not strike you as more than coincidental that the angel that they subscribe their name to is MORONi, root word moron, aren't there any red flags on this one?
Spoken like a true syncretist. I am dissapointed, of course not nescessariy surprised, the mormon church is in line with the doctrine of works to merit salvation just as the RCC is.
Gigantor, that's the first thing you've said to me that I can honestly say I resent. I am certainly not a syncretist. I hold no brief for Mormon theology. I am probably more familiar with Mormonism than most Christians, because I did some pretty strong study in it years ago. I had only the sort of information you find from sources like Utah Lighthouse, and I set out to find out how on earth so many otherwise intelligent people could believe such bilge. Several years later, I knew both that it was extremely heretical, and that it also wasn't as stupid as it was painted. If you want to know about Mormonism, you have to go straight to the people who actually believe it, rather than take cut-and-pastes from people like the Tanners. If you ask a Mormon, they'll usually answer as well as they know how, and admit to what they don't know. (How many Christians do you know who will do that?)
And this part I don't mean as a pejorative, but the similarities between Mormonism and Protestantism are much more striking than any between Mormonism and Catholicism. That was a factor in my becoming Catholic, in fact.
While I get a little bit of a chuckle at the Moroni-moron thing, the word "moron" doesn't appear until 1910, according to the Online Etymological Dictionary.
Joel
I am sorry that you were offended by my words but it is simply the way that you communicated yourself that cast a favorable light on a church that spews deceptive doctrines, and holds their people captive like cattle, by their man made traditions and rules. Hmmm kind of sounds like another organization that I know.
Be that as it may, it does not take a Phd. to understand that similar does not mean equivalent. Perhaps almonds and cyanide are similar in the odor that they emit but I assure you they are not equivalent the difference between the two is fatal!
As far as knowing humble Christians, I know more humble Christians than I do humble Catholics. All rhetoric aside, saying 'I might be wrong' is not a virtue as you seem to define it. If something is as clear as 2+2=4 you will not find me saying that 'I might be wrong' when it comes to it's sum. Saying 'I might be wrong' is simply false humility and if that is how you measure humility you are simply deceived by your own false humility.
I have studied the Mormon beleif system as well and I have known many mormons. I do not know who the tanners are, I educate myself on what is relevant before me, mormonism has been something that I have seen and addressed since my youth.
As far as mormons being good people and their religion not as dumb as others have made it out to be, well that is bilge in and of itself. Any religion that preaches another gospel is cursed and apart from Christ no one is good, even the best produce nothing but filthy rags apart from Christ. So, if you believe the word of God is true and you read it and understand it, how can you say that mormons or their religion is good if what they teach and adhere to ends in death? Are you not sure of this? Being good does not get you into heaven, it is simply the asphalt on the road to hell. The good that comes from Christ is a byproduct of the faith one has in Him, it is not something we do for merit towards eternal life or even for reward, those that are true believers love God's Commands and obey them simply because they love Him.
Gigantor, I don't think I was defending the Mormon doctrines. I felt that Steve's representation of them was inaccurate, which is not the same thing. I think the "spirit brother" thiing is minor, not widely believed (or understood) even within Mormonism, and very easily distorted. But it's useful when you want to illustrate Mormonism's departures from Christian orthodoxy, because the heresy is more blatant than in their definition of the Trinity or their belief in a living prophet. It's more sensational, especially if you present it in wild terms.
To be honest, Mormonism frustrates me, beacuse I see it filled with people I wish I could consider Christian brethren. They are not, not even as much as Protestants are, but the sort of people who are members of the Mormon Church are also the sort of people that the Lord could make great use of. I think it's a waste.
Joel
The nature of Christ; the character of God; etc. are vital issues on which Mormonism is heretical. This is not a sidebar concern.
Satan will always attack at the area of the crucial;never the trivial. His attacks have always been about: 1. the nature and character of the One Triune God of Scripture; 2. the deity and humanity of the Lord Jesus Christ; 3. the authority and veracity of Scripture; and the gospel.
Mormonism does not, has not, and cannot represent biblical Christianity.
Jude 3
Steve
The nature of Christ; the character of God; etc. are vital issues on which Mormonism is heretical. This is not a sidebar concern.
Satan will always attack at the area of the crucial;never the trivial. His attacks have always been about: 1. the nature and character of the One Triune God of Scripture; 2. the deity and humanity of the Lord Jesus Christ; 3. the authority and veracity of Scripture; and the gospel.
Mormonism does not, has not, and cannot represent biblical Christianity.
Steve, this time I get to agree with you on all counts. Excuse me while I go mark this day in red on my calendar. :)
Im glad this subject is being brought forward. While it is difficult not to genuinely like those of the Mormon faith, they are moral, considerate, loving families/parents, and all around great people, but they also deny the Lordship of Christ, the Persons of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and other foundational Christian truths. I even heard a well-known celebrity Mormon claim to be a Christian!
In a nutshell, Mormons are polytheistic in their belief, this is perhaps the most glaring of the false truths that they claim, they believe that they are god's, or will be. Also, how they appear in public life is not nescessarily how they appear in private.
Point is they are not saved and if anything they are in a deeper morass than the average non believer because they are so blinded by their own false hopes. They need the true Christ, the true Gospel, otherwise all thay they appear to be will be lost to eternity.
someone wrote:
"the sort of people who are members of the Mormon Church are also the sort of people that the Lord could make great use of"
What a strange saying this is. It sounds like someone has put their God in a box. Could not God also make great use of the whino, hooker and porn-peddler on the street? I get frustrated with this view, when people of ten look at a celebrity and say, "Boy if they were only a Christian - God could really use their talent." While it is true that they could have an impact in proclaiming the gospel to the lost, remember that God Almighty could raise up a nation among inanimate stones, and cause the very rocks to cry out in praise to Him. He has no need for our talents in that sense. In His sovereignty, He uses our surrendered selves, for His glory, NO MATTER who or what type of person we are, BEFORE our conversion. Just my 2 cents worth.
oh, and my money is also on Fred Thompson :)
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