Wednesday, February 15, 2006

Evangelical Climate Initiative
...Warren's wacky environmental agenda

Updated (1:30pm, 2/20) I like using humor and sarcasm in driving home a point--it is an effective tool in communication especially when dealing with issues like this. BUT, after receiving some off-forum (and a few on forum) comments from those whose opinions I do value, I have decided to update this article calming down the sarcasm significantly, but still dealing with the heart of this important issue. Please forgive me for the needless offense my original entry caused any of you.

Grace and peace to you all,
Steve
2 Cor. 6:3-10

The Purpose Driven Environment?

Rick Warren has written the most successful book in US publishing history--the Purpose Driven Life. He has made a lot of money and since has been involved as a voice for many social causes such as ministering to people with AIDS and world hunger. I have also been involved in both of those issues for several years (18 years with AIDS; and 27 years with world hunger). There is much ministry to be done in both of those fields and I hope that Mr. Warren is not only addressing their physical need, but more importantly, addressing their spiritual need by uncompromisingly proclaiming the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ (sola fide, sola gratia, solus Christus. However, having read much of Mr. Warren's published material, there is no printed evidence that either the gospel he professes is sufficient and the gospel he proclaims is central to his "purpose" even within the social cause.)

But now, Rick Warren is spearheading a global effort called the Evangelical Climate Initiative. There's only one problem with this issue--global warming really doesn't exist. This is nothing but a recycled (no pun intended) left wing political agenda that has infiltrated evangelicalism; and Warren and company more than willing has peppered the ECI with numerous biblical proof-texts (almost all of the scriptures he uses to justify this cause are taken completely out of context--too many to list here. Unfortunately, I still think he's still reading "The Message" rather than a genuine translation of Scripture).

Global warming is a myth beloved. The planet is not as fragile as some make it out to be. What's "fragile" are the politics associated with this "cause." In actuality, our planet has only gotten 2-3 degrees warmer in the last 100 years and not uniformly but in limited regions. Mordantly, I can see why they call this "a crisis!" This is really another attempt to make environmental policy by junk-science, isn't it? One obvious example: at the end of the 19th century the scientific technological indicators for measuring the earth's global temperatures were not advanced or sophisticated, to be considered absolutely trusted as to accuracy and reliability of whatever their findings produced.

But one has to ask of our brother this: is this a midlife crisis or a global crisis? I say that not to attack Warren's person, but follow this progression with me for a minute: He changed the hair; changed the wardrobe; grew the goatee; last summer he announced he was curing world hunger, but patently couldn't; I hope he realizes that addressing the AIDS issue is much more complicated than meeting with BONO and throwing large amounts of celebrity money at it; rather than developing his passion for these issues biblically, he proof-texts them ad nauseam (you have to admit, no one does this better than Rick); and seemingly he isn't content with what his biblical duties as a pastor are (shepherding, discipleship, bible exposition, prayer, church discipline, proclaiming the gospel, etc.). So then, what does one do now with virtually unlimited wealth, a large platform, an eager media, and so many social issues to try and fix? Buy a bright red-turbo-charged-hybrid car? No--too obvious and too easy. Instead, he helps lead and create the Evangelical Climate Initiative.

Global Warming is Prejudiced: It Doesn't Like Poor People
Warren asserts: "Millions of people could die in this century because of climate change, most of them our poorest global neighbors." Ah, there it is... the driving economics behind it all. Playing the poverty card is a familiar dodge in socio-economic political causes. He is more than implying here that inherent to global warming is a bias against the poor regions of this world. This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If the U.S. is the number one polluter/industrial nation on the face of the earth, why isn't the fall-out of such pollution going to hurt us more than any other nation? And, according to Warren, this pile up of destructive greenhouse gas emissions is purely a human induced plight. Hasn't he or members of the ECI read that the number one affecting agent to our climate is due to the sometimes sporadic solar activity from the sun? And who is going to rid us of this devastating problem facing this world? Rick Warren and his band of merry politically liberal evangelical men. Foolish.

And here is the all to familiar recognizable hypocrisy of this kind of liberal social cause--the rhetoric rarely matches the reality. I.E. - Does Warren and his environmental sycophants all drive electric cars? NO, of course not. Has Warren and all his environmental flatterers stopped flying in jet airplanes? NO, of course not. Do they all live in completely natural home environments free from all manmade power and fuel? NO, of course not. Does this mean that the next time Mr. Warren is going to hold a PDL conference, that we should give him plenty of time to get there, for he must be arriving in the only politically correct vehicle still left to mankind: the horse and buggy? NO, of course not. This does raise an important question though: would he consider the numerous methane emissions by his "purpose driven horse" an environmental risk and danger to the atmosphere and a serious threat to the depletion of the O-Zone and the melting of the Arctic glaciers? I wonder if there is some rumbling on K-Street that Al Gore has invited Mr. Warren to accompany him on his next trip to Saudi Arabia to address the Arabs on this pressing issue? Though said tongue and cheek, don't put it past him folks...

Calvin on the Environment - A Reformed View
For a brief moment I want to look at what John Calvin says about man's relationship with God's creation.

"It is clear," cites Jason Foster, "that for Calvin, the creation is subject to the ongoing sovereign and providential governance of God. Commenting on Psalm 104:4. Calvin says, 'By these words we are taught that the winds do not blow by chance, nor the lightnings flash by a fortuitous impulse, but that God, in the exercise of his sovereign power, rules and controls all the agitations and disturbances of the atmosphere.'(11) Calvin rejects the view that created things are infused with the necessary inherent energy to sustain themselves absent divine providence, and instead, insists upon the necessity of God’s sustaining activity in governing the world.(12) So even though God... commands man in the pre-Fall period to maintain the quality of the creation, it is God who ultimately controls and cares for it, both directly and indirectly."(13) (Reformed Perspectives Magazine, Volume 7, Number 51, December 18 to December 24, 2005 )

11- Calvin, Commentary upon the Book of Psalms, Calvin’s Commentaries, Vol. VI, trans. by James Anderson (Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 2003), p. 146.

12- Calvin forcefully remarks, “It were cold and lifeless to represent God as a momentary Creator, who completed his work once for all, and then left it. Here, especially, we must dissent from the profane, and maintain that the presence of the divine power is conspicuous, not less in the perpetual condition of the world than in its first creation.” Institutes, 1.16.1.

13 - Importantly, Calvin employs preservation language in describing God’s relationship to nature: “[A]s the world was once made by God, so it is now preserved by him, and that the earth and all other things endure just in as far as they are sustained by his energy, and as it were his hand.” Catechism of the Church of Geneva, Calvin’s Selected Works, Vol. 2, trans. by Henry Beveridge (Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 1983), p. 40.
Global Luke-Warming: A True Environmental Threat
There is a global warming going on today folks--a global luke-warming. A cooling off from the gospel to pursue tertiary concerns that make the planetary temporal issues preeminent (fabricated mind you) and eternal ones surrounding mens souls of a lessor concern. This whole issue is so incongruous that not even Dr. Dobson (to his credit) and the Evangelical Co-Beligerents are not weighing in on this. Some twenty-two of the nation's most high-profile evangelical leaders, signed a letter in January declaring, "Global warming is not a consensus issue." Among the signers were Charles W. Colson, the founder of Prison Fellowship Ministries; James C. Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family; and Richard Land, president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention.

This fascination that Warren has about the planet seems nothing more than the byproduct of BONO's liberal influence over him. I guess Rick "still hasn't found what he's looking for..." Doesn't he realize that the Lord is not only the creator of this earth but its sustainer as well? Paul says in Colossians 1:16-17 "For by Him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things [consist] are held together." Our Lord sustains this earth--we are not that powerful to do so. Are we to be good stewards of God's creation... yes. Don't liter; keep the streams, rivers and lakes clean; protect the air we breathe... not a problem. But global warming lacks the conclusive scientific data to be dogmatic about its potential fallout and destructive effects on mankind. The ECI is playing on peoples fears with unfounded and in many cases, inflated information.

Here is the link you can read for yourself. And another one here. Make sure you check out those "major Christian leaders" who are the signatories on this initiative. Very underwhelming.

Stay in the O-Zone; the Obedient Zone
In the wise words of my friend, Dr. John MacArthur, he says, "if you think we've made a mess of this planet, wait 'til you see what Jesus does to this place one day when He comes back." So what do we do in the midst of this globally fabricated artificially induced raising of the earth's temp crisis that Warren so desperately wants to be the champion of?

Keep on with your biblical duties (begin with the Sermon on the Mount [Matt.5-7]) and then try the following:
-trade in your hybrid cars (they actually cost you more $ in the long run)
-drive an SUV, if you can afford one;
-build a campfire;
-turn up the heat;
-use air-conditioners;
-use oil and oil by-products;
-grill outside more often;
-fill up your gas tanks;
-take long trips with the family;
-smoke cigars and pipes if your conscience allows;
-and continue to fly jet airplanes.
(All for the glory of God of course.)
And continue to ask yourself beloved, in order to save the planet what kind of horse is Rick Warren willing to ride?

PS - Please notice, I'm not completely insensitive to Mr. Warren's environmental concerns. To show my empathy, I chose to use a dark-green color on the subheading titles and blockquote. I'm doing what I can to help Rick in this cause.

For further information, please read the following two articles: We're Not Destroying the Planet by Rush Limbaugh; and The Evangelical Climate Initiative (ECI) was funded by abortion group by Peter C.Glover. Always follow the money beloved--it reveals volumes.

53 comments:

RR said...

I am getting a hybrid car not to save the planet, but to save dollars. We are called to be good stewards, and while I think all the environmental alarms are a bunch of hooie, I do think we need to be wise w/ how we use what we are given.

vegemitechristian said...

I was going to say something sarcastic, but instead I'll ask:

Although I enjoyed the tongue in cheek list of "things to do", I do wonder about the whole thing - ie. what is the christian's attitude to be? Surely not, "let's trash the place?"

littlegal_66 said...

"To show my empathy, I chose to use a dark-green color on the subheading titles and my blockquote".

Careful with the use of green; I heard a certain felt frog on a Hybrid commercial lamenting that it "ain't easy bein' green." :-)

SJ Camp said...

Trash the place... of course not. Save the place? Not needed--the earth is not in trouble.

Don't liter or destroy our food or water resources. Clean water, clear air, clean surroundings. Sounds good. Be good stewards...

BUT, global warming is a myth and not an issue. The planet is not that fragile. It's a made up political issue.

That's the point.

Steve

vegemitechristian said...

Got ya.

Any resources in particular swung you that way? (I really don't know much about it all).

Cheers

Rusty said...

ROFL! Great post Steve. Definitely worth a blogspot on my blog ... comin up =)

--Rusty

Nathan said...

Whew, that's some blistering sarcasm in the best Job 12:2 tradition. Not that I disagree at all with the selection of its target. Having grown up in a pastor's home, I've got little respect for a pastor wasting his precious time on nonsense like this.

Puritan Belief said...

Even if the world was 10 degrees hotter and islands were sinking and Tsunamis happened every year causing the death of millions world wide. Wars started happening and horrendous thunder storms started destroying homes.

May I ask whose plan would this be a part of. Who would use it all for the favour of his children though they be persecuted or famished.

If it is not the Lord then who does these things?

Jesus made it clear that the poor would always be with us. But if anyone could have solved world hunger it was Jesus. He was concerned with the gospel for he was offering LIVING WATER that will not run dry and his own body which would be offered up for the many.

If Mr Warren was pushing this message do you really think he would have such a say in the world?

The world loves the campaigns such as "Make Poverty History" and "Samaritans Purse" and Bono's "The United States should tithe to the poor countries" They love to think that yes there is still some good in man. Preach a world wicked to the core in desperate need of a savior to the uttermost and they will call you a fundamentalist and disregard your every word.

donsands said...

"Then the LORD said in His heart, 'I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
While the earth remains,
Seedtime and harvest,
Cold and heat,
Winter and summer,
And day and night
Shall not cease'."Gen. 8:21-22
God will preserve the earth until the final judgement (2 Pet.: 3: 7,13)

We do need to care about this beautiful earth the Lord has made, but lets share that stewardship with the message of the good news of Jesus Christ.
My heart is grieved with Rick Warren. What a platform he does have, and I pray he would use it for the only true power to change lives, the good news of our Lord crucified and risen.

Puritan Belief said...

Just read one of the links you gave us steve about Mr Warren

Notice the Jesus Mr Warren serves. He has his hands tied behind his back. What are Christians if they are not fundamentalists for the truth of the gospel?

But, powerful as churches can be in working for the powerless, they can't succeed without governments and nongovernmental organizations, Warren said.

Warren predicts that fundamentalism, of all varieties, will be "one of the big enemies of the 21st century."


http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/living/religion/13573441.htm

JohnTheReformedBaptist said...

"and isn't content with what his biblical duties as a pastor are... "

My friend attended Saddleback for I think 11 years...since it was in a school. She went in to talk to a "Pastor", she was in a bit of a crisis. They reffered her to a shrink. So much for Purpose Driven Pastoral care. But praise the Lord...she finally left that pit and found a compassionate Pastor's wife from another Church to talk to.

vegemitechristian said...

john,

To be fair:

That is an isolated incident, involving one particular church person that could have been in any church.
And: was the pastor referring to a good, christian 'shrink'? Was the pastor admitting that this particular crisis was above his head? Maybe. Maybe not. That's the point - I can't know.

I'm not trying to make a big deal about your comment in particular, I'm more using it as an example (which might be unfortunate for you to be the one I picked on!). But your comment is intended to paint a bad picture of a church/movement by a non-public example.

This sort of thing is best avoided, I submit.

Humbly yours (because I want to try and avoid the same error myself).

Andrew Wheatley said...

"Millions of people could die in this century because of climate change, most of them our poorest global neighbors"

Could sounds a little uncertain. How about:
Millions of people will die in this century because of old age...or better yet, sin. (Romans 6:23)

Denise said...

Global Warming? What global Warming??? In the news so far this year:

Jan. 9, 2006:

NEW DELHI - The Indian capital Sunday saw its first winter frost in 70 years as a cold wave sweeping in from the Himalayas killed more people in northern India overnight, officials said.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/187217/1/.html

Dec. 20,2005

The cold spell that gripped the nation over the weekend continued to dump heavy snow in mountainous regions Monday and brought Nagoya its heaviest fall in 58 years, the Japan Meteorological Agency said.

In central Tokyo, the mercury dropped to minus 0.8 degrees in the morning, the lowest for December in 10 years.

http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200512200174.html

Some 24 people have died of exposure in Russia as freezing winter temperatures plunged to minus 30C overnight.
Temperatures on Thursday were the lowest recorded on the date of 19 January since 1927, weather forecasters said. (BBC- Jan. 19, 2006)

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/09/international/asia/09japan.html?ei=5065&en=382863a882cd6f2f&ex=1137474000&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print

Jan. 8,2006

Disaster relief teams have been dispatched across Japan after the heaviest snowfall on record, Japanese media is reporting.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4591950.stm

Also, Junk Science website has lots of info on this myth of global warming and other "scientific" studies and claims.

cyd said...

Ahhh! The Purpose Driven Planet...I can just hear the inner workings now, "Hey, why stop with the Catholic market? Let's go global; Literally!"

You are having way too much fun, Campi!

Castusfumus said...

My Accord (hybrid), turbocharged Cessna, pellet fuel stove and Jack Russel terrier are all purpose driven. Some more than others.

Jeremy Weaver said...

Wonder what Timothy George and David Dockery are thinking? Do they just put their names on anything that has the word 'Evangelical' in the title?

Larry said...

Warren needs to bone up on the scriptural responsibilities of an elder, quit jet-setting around the world and get back to his church and do them. I for one have had quite enough of him running in front of every camera he can find and inserting himself in every cause that comes along. He's nothing more than a white Jesse Jackson.

candyinsierras said...

Once you understand who is funding Rick Warren in this endeavor, it makes sense. He is being funded by the Rockerfeller Foundation, you know, the same folks who helped set up the United Nations. Warren is the Christian pawn in the agenda to bring us into Socialism.

marc said...

Candy, there you go again. One of these days when we are nailed to the doors of our churches and Rick Warren is the puppet preacher for the new world order you can look over at me and say "See, I told you so" ;-).

Sparks said...

Oh my...just when I thought Mr. Warren couldn't do anything to make me more nauseous at hearing his voice or seeing his face.

Perhaps he should focus some effort on getting the Muslim religion to have a different "purpose" other than terrorism and murder. Now there's a REAL problem for him to address.

Sparks said...

Okay, now that I've looked at the website I find the same kind of language being used to dismiss/discredit critics as is used in the church growth movement to dismiss/discredit critics.

If you believe their site, this is NO CREDIBLE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE that Global Warming is a myth.

While Evangelical "leaders" spin up one worldly endevour after another for Christians to expend efforts on, where is the priority for spreading the Gospel? Where is the belief that our God is powerful enough to overcome anything man is capable of doing?

Sure, be good stewards of everything God has created and provided...but I'm pretty sure the Scripture translations I read don't say anything about "going forth to all the nations and saving the planet"!

Keith said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Keith said...

i'm almost certain that i once heard john macarthur, commenting on a similar topic, say: "shoot a deer, eat a steak, walk on the grass." (my apologies if i've misquoted or misappropriated the comment)

great post, steve...i'm walking into my hallway right now to crank up the heat-- we got about 4 inches of snow last night and it's 19 degrees outside. where's the global warming!!!

SJ Camp said...

Yes... you're right. Mac did something like years ago. Really great.

Steve

Never Stop Learning said...

The ignorance expressed in this blog is truly amazing. Apparently Steve Camp and many others need to go back to college to get educated about science and the world, and need to stop talking about topics that they know nothing about. If you want to talk about what God wants, He wants us to take care of this planet and all His creations. He doesn't want us to take it for granted like selfish, ungrateful little brats. So for all you who take the Bible so literally, go look at Genesis where He granted humans dominion over the earth and the assignment to be its caretaker. Now as for the issue of global warming, IT IS REAL. Glaciers and the polar ice caps are melting at unprecedented rates and the sea level is also rising in disturbingly fast. As for the poor countries and people that will be suffering more than us in America, let's talk about low-lying countries like Maldives and Tuvalu, which include somewhere around 100,000 people, that lie entirely less than 4 meters (about 13 feet) above sea level, that are desparately looking for ways to hold back the sea. What do you have to say to them about rising sea levels from climate change? They are God's children, as are all the people in this world, and it has nothing to do with God that many of them are facing the loss of homes and countries, and in the case of the poorest, their lives, and it has everything to do with the way humans are NOT taking care of this planet. Currently there is almost nothing that can be produced without using oil, but telling people that we must go back to the way the lived in the dark ages is not a feasible solution. Funding scientific research that can find alternatives for energy is a necessary and important endeavor.

candyinsierras said...

hey Marc. I know. I know. I am repeating myself on various blogs. You must be interested in this issue cuz you show up on the same blogs.:)

Rick Warren, puppet preacher. I like that. Yeah...I will look over at you and you will be calculating how to get a great picture of Rick Warren on a Greenpeace ship for your You Supply the Caption entry.

SJ Camp said...

Never Stop Learning:

I like your name very much... and want to encourage you to live up to that name.

Here are a few basic links for you about this issue. I hope this will help you a bit more to become further acquainted with the truth of this issue:

1. Myths of Global Warming form the National Center for Policy Analysis.

2. The CEI Environmental Studies Program some facts and figures for you.

3. A Reprint by The Wall Street Journal (December 4, 1997)

4. RealClimate climate science by climate scientists.

Enjoy the earth--it belongs to the Lord and He is in control of it. Are you active in proclaiming the gospel of sola fide and sola gratia, calling a lost world to repentance and to be followers of Jesus Christ as Lord of their lives? That is the real crisis facing our planet--people dying without the Lord!

Keep eternity in view... every day.
Thanks for your comments.
Steve

SJ Camp said...

BTW:

Littlegal submitted a new horse and buggy photo for this post. I have inserted.

A COT contest. Can anyone name the two men behind the reigns here?

Thanks Stephanie... really good. Between you and S.H. I'm a blessed blog.

Grace and peace,
Steve

Michele Rayburn said...

I don't know who is sitting on the right, but is that Rick Warren on the left? (Can I win half a contest if I'm right?)

(I think I have too much time on my hands...it's been a slow Saturday.)

By the way, what's the prize if I guess the whole thing?!

In His Love,
Michele

Michele Rayburn said...

Now I think I know. It's Rick Warren and Bono. Am I right? I should have known.

Michele

SJ Camp said...

Michele:

You are correct!!! Excellent job.

No prize though--it was just the joy of intellectual stimulus on a very cold and somewhat snowy 'stay inside' trivia searching kind of day in the greater Nashville area.

Blogging has its benefits on days like this, doesn't it?
Steve

Michele Rayburn said...

LOL alot! Yes, blogging has it's benefits :( Thanks, Steve !?

And, yes, I should "count it all joy"! That is my reward. It was a joy :) You always make me laugh.

I never would have studied that picture had you not asked us to, and noticed it was them.

And, yes, littlegal and Steve Hesselman are two of the finest artists I have seen. You have two of the very best.

In view of the biblical command to "keep asking, keep seeking, keep knocking...", I'm...

Hoping for a prize anyway,
Michele
P.S. I mean, it is a contest after all...C'mon, Steve! (Only kidding...:)

Chris said...

Mr. Camp,

I am a fan of yours from way back. I still consider "Fire and Ice" to be one of the best Christian rock albums of the 1980s. But I was shocked to read this blog when I followed a link here.
Anyone is free to agree or disagree with Warren's views. But you don't just disagree, you engage in gratuitous sarcasm and cheap rhetorical tricks known as ad hominem attacks and straw men.
What is the point of commenting on Warren's personal appearance and wealth, other than to somehow smear him personally? This is the ad hominem attack.
When you quote Warren as saying the poorest are most likely to be affected by global warming, you reply "It doesn't affect the middle class or most wealthy in this world--inherent in global warming is an evil biased against the poor of this world."
Well, that isn't what you quote him as saying. This is the straw man.

In fact, you never respond to the substance of Warren's views at all, you just make one snide comment after another. You also claim global warming is a myth, although you don't say how you know that to be so. Let's be clear: I've never read a single word written by Warren, and know nothing about him. I'm responding solely to what you wrote, and I can only say I'm disappointed. It may surprise you, but calling something "left-wing" and "liberal" does not make it untrue. And to your criticism on Warren still driving a normal car and using jet airplanes, I guess I would reply that using your logic you should only be allowed to criticise the modern Christian church once you've tithed at least 50%.

I'll still listen to "Fire and Ice," but I'll never enjoy it quite as much, knowing what a malicious jerk you've become.

Chris

SJ Camp said...

Chris:

Thank you for your comments and for the kind words about "Fire and Ice." That CD was pivotal in my ministry and I don't take lightly your gracious words.

I am wondering, from the sound of your post, are you a strong proponent of global warming concerns and Warren's attempt to deal with it? What I find interesting, is that you are so vehemently defending someone whose views you have never read and know nothing about whatsoever. My sarcasm about some of his views does have context and contains much truth behind the humor which most on this blog and frankly, within Christendom, understand very well.

However, I do not resort to calling someone "a melicous jerk" no matter how much I disagree with them, but try to answer intelligently their views.

So, to answer some of your questions:

1. What is the point of commenting on Warren's personal appearance and wealth, other than to somehow smear him personally?

This is not a smear personally of Warren (i.e. his wealth or hair). It is only said in wondering if this is a midlife crisis or truly a global concern of his. Reason: since his PDL material has sold more than 30,000,000 copies this past two years, his new found wealth has caused him to be involved in issues he never was really involved with in a public forum prior to obtaining it. And since he is a senior pastor of a church, what is interesting to many around the country, is that his focus has shifted from ministry concerns that find their nexus from the gospel, discipleship, missions, and the preaching of the Word; to social concerns absent of the centricity of gospel. It is the temporal over the eternal focus. You should first read his books and/or articles to gain a proper context for the sarcasm and humor associated with his views.

2. When you quote Warren as saying the poorest are most likely to be affected by global warming, you reply "It doesn't affect the middle class or most wealthy in this world--inherent in global warming is an evil biased against the poor of this world."

His view is patently false. There is no empirical scientific evidence to prove global warming is an issue--and that if it was it is going to affect the most impoverished of nations.

Social claims made politically by social liberals always seem to find their fulcrum in one of three things: race/gender, economic viability; or personal convenience. In this case, Warren is appealing to economic viability (the poorest regions) as if that somehow will induce empathy for further support to his unsubstantiated claims. I have put links on a previous comment to a few different articles you can read to understand further the bogus claims of environmentalists pertaining to global warming.

3. you never respond to the substance of Warren's views at all,

What would the substance of Warren's views be? Can you cite them? Oh wait, you haven't read anything Warren has ever written, not one word, so how do you know what is the substance of any of his views? I have read everything Warren has ever published; and the Evangelical Climate Initiative docs as well - and there is no substance to even respond too except to the absurdity of his claims. They certainly are not scientific; and definitely lack biblical foundation.

4. Lastly you say, "to your criticism on Warren still driving a normal car and using jet airplanes, I guess I would reply that using your logic you should only be allowed to criticise the modern Christian church once you've tithed at least 50%."

It's simple Chris, rhetoric over reality. The utter hypocrisy within the environmentalist community (Al Gore being the greatest hypocrite of them all) is that they continue to use all the modern devices they claim are polluting the air, depleting the O-zone and causing global warming--Warren included. Style over substance--it gets very old.

One point of clarification for you: tithing is an Old Testament concept equal to paying taxes today. Under Jewish theocratic law, people had to pay three tithes (or taxes) that would amount to about 23.33% of ones income. Where did the 50% figure originate you mentioned... the same place that global warming did maybe?

BTW: the New Testament model for giving is found in 2 Corinthians 9 where I would direct your thoughts.

You are welcome to express yourself here anytime Chris, but I would hope that you would at least read something by Warren before posting again to gain a small degree of insight as to the "all over the map-lack of biblical foundation" he continually operates from and so that you can more intelligently comment about this issue. But they may not be your motive for posting.

You should be aware, that one of the rules of engagement on this blog, is that I don't allow any anonymous posting. I clicked on your name and couldn't find any bio information whatsoever. Please complete the registration form you didn't fill out and correct this immediately so that you can continue to take part in future discussions here. If you choose not to, all future comments will be deleted.

Thank you again for your time and for sharing your thoughts.

Grace and peace,
Steve
2 Cor. 4;5-7

aujourd_hui said...

Steve,

I do not call into question the subject of 'proof of global warming'. It seems that our respected scientific community is split over the issue and it is true that scientists are rarley completely right or wrong over these sorts of things (think Galileo).

But I think it also true that the Church runs the risk of isolating itself from its community by using scientific theories or lack thereof to push an agenda (think Galileo again).

If the warming is happening, we should probably help stop it, as anyone with a sound mind will agree. If it isn't happening, then why worry? But here's the catch, what if we're wrong about either? I think the risks of being open minded about sustaining our planet are much, much lower than that of not being so.

There are other peripheral issues too. Littering and irresponsible behavior promotes a wasteful lifestyle; "just throw it away, you wont need it again". It also shows a disrespect for everything else, the billions upon billions of other living organisms here.

Why pit the Evangelical Christian community against other communities, when there is nothing to gain. I am calling into question your greater worldview.

Sub point, there is also some very good disscussion to be had in how some may be using the warming crisis and other issues to push a purely political agenda; it is definitly there. I look foward to your reply, I hope I made sense.

Daniel

littlegal_66 said...

"Between you and S.H. I'm a blessed blog."

I can't speak for my new friend "Hess," but....well, shucks, I feel pretty blessed that I'm allowed this great outlet for my.....er.."creative expression"...and quirky sense of humor. Hopefully, it's been-and will continue to be-a "win-win," here.

Have a blessed Lord's day, all. And stay warm--shiver, shiver.

P.S. Thanks to both Campi & Michele for your kind, galvanizing words.

Oh, and Chris...could the "heat" from Steve's article possibly be representative of the "fire" he sang about in '83? (And I'm not referring to the references to global warming). ;-)
(Or, one could say he's just holding Mr. Warren's feet to the "environmental" fire).

Michele Rayburn said...

If anyone is interested, Rush Limbaugh has spoken extensively on this subject, so much so, I wouldn't know where to begin.

But if you become a member(you can even sign up for just one month), you will become a part of what's called "Rush 24/7". And when you do, go to his "Essential Stack of Stuff" where you'll see "Hundreds and Hundreds of Pages -- Hours of Rush Audio Commentary!" and "Key Issues: Your Talking Points for Battles in the Arena of Ideas".

In that long list of "Key Issues", you'll see "Environmentalist Wackos: Dangerous Extremists". There you will see 71 archived written and audio commentaries on this issue.

Rush is always quoting good credible sources. And he does a tremendous job of explaining just how political this issue really is.

He explains how we couldn't destroy the earth even if we wanted to.

I think anyone who listens to what he says will benefit greatly.

I've been listening to Rush for 15 years and no one has successfully argued against him on this issue yet. I think it's because he makes sure he has the facts, and doesn't base his reasoning on his feelings.

(BTW, Steve has a link to Rush's web site on the sidebar of this blog. It sure comes in handy!)

In His Love,
Michele

SJ Camp said...

Daniel:

Thank you for your well stated comments here.

Just one quick thought before heading off to church. I am not about being irresponsible when it comes to our surroundings. We shouldn't litter; we should care for our streams, rivers and lakes to not pollute them and hurt our drinking water reservoirs, etc. We have immediate control over those things and should act in manner that is befitting our faith in Christ.

what I find interesting as well, we usually find that environmental activists are usually consistent (not always) with a pro-abortion stance as well. Global warming is a profound crisis; but killing unborn children--a personal reproductive right. Doesn't equate does it...

On this issue of global warming, there just isn't the data to prove that the earth is somehow on the brink of catastrophic danger. Again, it is different to say, "don't litter" - from "we are destroying the eco-system of our planet and it is tittering on the edge of a global crisis because we are driving SUV's that singlehandedly are responsible for too many fossil fuel emissions that are wiping out the O-zone protecting our planet." We can easily measure and issues like littering, dirty water, dirty air, etc. And we can make a difference on those things immediately and directly. But global warming is a politically driven device for political posturing; not a real issue. Again, the data is inconclusive, incomplete and most importantly, we are not.capable as humans to thwart God's purposes (sorry had to refer to Rick somehow in this comment) in His creation.

Again, let's be good stewards of all of God's creation and begin by protecting the most valuable of resources, the rights of unborn children.

Thank you for listening,
Steve
2 Cor. 4:5-7

SJ Camp said...

Here's a great link for you all to read:

We're Not Destroying the Planet

Steve

Glenn J said...

Global Warming is real and does have an impact on the on the environment. The issue is how much of an impact do we as a society play in global warming. The answer is - volcanic eruptions, forest fires, and other elements of nature have a far greater impact on global warming than anything we seem to do. Isn't it also the natural cycle of planet earth to experience a constant change or flux in temperture? My Dad tells me back in his high school days (45 years ago) the great threat taught in public schools was global cooling and the new ice age!

littlegal_66 said...

Mega-dittos, El Stevebo.....

Sparks said...

"Why pit the Evangelical Christian community against other communities, when there is nothing to gain. I am calling into question your greater worldview.
Daniel"

You know what happens when Christians start taking "worldviews" instead of "God views"?
THIS!
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/2/172006b.asp
http://www.uwosh.edu/colleges/cols/clergy_project.htm

SJ Camp said...

I have just update this article to reduce the sarcasm so as not to allow that to be an obstacle to anyone at COT from really understanding the heart of this issue.

Please forgive me for any offense this has caused any of you.

Grace and peace,
Steve
2 Cor. 6:3-10

aujourd_hui said...

Thank you for clarifying your position Steve; it's appreciated.

I'm getting worried as more and more Evangelical Christians are adopting an anti-environment agenda for whatever reason; probably not to be labeled left-wing actually.

Dr. John MacArthur's quote you supplied is a good example of this...
"If you think we've made a mess of this planet, wait 'til you see what Jesus does to this place one day when He comes back."

I don't know if he said it sarcastically or not but it worries me; it seems irresponsible and wasteful (also potentially offensive to a very large number of reasonable intellegent people, Christians included).

Sparks, what does God-view mean? It isn't even a word. Those articles also have little or nothing to do with our conversation. Please don't equate me using the word 'worldview' with whatever preposterous conspiracy you find on the internet.

Thanks,
Daniel

Jdart said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Jdart said...

“I'm getting worried as more and more Evangelical Christians are adopting an anti-environment agenda for whatever reason; probably not to be labeled left-wing actually.”

I have to resonate with what Daniel is saying here. Too many times, people are not able to equate Christians with being environmentalists without adding on the left-wing name. Only in the US would this happen. I don’t think that environmentalism is even a major religious issue – I think there are larger issues for religion to think about. When it gets down to it, the only thing we should all be thinking about (religious or not) is living the best we can on this planet, because whether or not you worship any God, you still have to live here. That’s the bottom line. Don’t label Christians who care about the environment as left-wing without knowing these people – you are over generalizing an entire group – and that is dangerous and ignorant. At the beginning of your post you said that many people that care for the environment are also pro-abortion. I don’t know if one’s view on abortion should be relevant in a discussion on Christianity and the environment. Once again, be careful not to stereotype people into groups that they might not belong to. The US has made the environment into the right vs. the left and it shouldn’t be like that at all. It should be right with the left, (I know that is an idealized world). As Christians maybe we should work on understanding and acceptance instead of bickering over hybrids and global warming. I’m inclined to try and practice sustainable living as much as I can, even though many times in the States, it is terribly difficult. You CAN be: Christian/Right Winged/Environmentalist and no one should have to fear for other labels being added to that.

J

donsands said...

About John MacArthur's quote, I wouldn't say he is an irresponsible Christian. I would love to see a paragraph or so of what he said in front and behind this quote.

I'm sure he recognizes as followers of Christ we are to care for the earth, which is the Lord's.

He must be speaking to the extreme views that are out there. Extremes like it's a fereral crime to take an Eagles egg from a nest, but it's legal to abort a baby. I would agree that we should leave the Eagle alone as well, but we say things like this to take a strong and fervant position.

Also, Scripture does explain Pastor John's quote to a point: "But the Day of the Lord will come as a theif in the night; ... the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be destroyed what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy living and godliness." 2 Pet. 3:10-11

I wish Pastor Warren would incorporate verses like these into his speaches about global warming. That way, there would be a balance, and a platform for the good news of Christ to be proclaimed.
Just a thought.

rockn4Christ_n_theATL said...

SJ C@mp said ... Are you active in proclaiming the gospel of sola fide and sola gratia, calling a lost world to repentance and to be followers of Jesus Christ as Lord of their lives? That is the real crisis facing our planet--people dying without the Lord!
Steve, you just proved Rick Warren's point for him ... The real crisis is people are dying without the Lord -- and they're dying because of lack of proper care and stewardship of the Creation God has given us.

If you don't like Rick Warren, that's fine. But it seems to me that he is trying to escape Christian suburbia and do what Christ called us to do, which is to help the helpless. You can't help dead people, nor can you share the Gopsel with them.

Whether global warming is real or not is irrelevant. In science, people will stand on both sides of the fence and refute anything. But as believers, we must be willing to take a look at why we do what we do, particularly when it comes to the decisions we make regarding natural resources.

For someone who is so quick to judge that a person who cares for creation may be more interested in that issue over other people's souls, you need to understand that this issue is a way to share the Gospel with a group of people whose hearts have been hardened by people with arrogant faith. They can't understand why people who lead the pro-life movement aren't concerned with other living things God created. I want to challenge you to think about that and pray about it instead of ripping a brother in Christ on your blog.

AMAZEDatYALL said...

i live in dallas, texas which has red-alert days when the air quality is so poor due to smog that parents are warned not to allow their children to play outside. it could damage their lungs. if we can cause that kind of environment change, is it not likely that we could cause climate change if every city on earth were as polluted?

50 years ago they said that smoking was not bad for your health. today we know it is. "better safe than sorry" where global warming is concerned,i think. something like 98% of scientists believe that man is contributing to the earth's warming. i think we aought to give their words more weight than we give those of steve camp and rush limbaugh who are, afer all, just entertainers.

i am shocked at some of the christian veiwpoints in this blog. "God is in charge! mankind destroy earth? hogwash! only God will do that, not our environmental policies!" it's a bit like some muslims who believe it is better to slice a rape victim's throat rather than let her live in shame. in both cases, fundamentalist doctrine trumps good sense once again.

AMAZEDatYALL said...

forgot to mention something...for centuries scientists have suggested theories that are now well known truths. (the earth is not flat, the sun does not orbit around the earth, the "leviathan" causing the rivers to overflow it's banks in the spring is not a monster but the melting spring snows from the mountains, the female is more than just an incubator for the whole person found in the male's sperm but the female contributes an egg, etc.)

it is not the scientists who persecuted their opponents but fundamentalist christians who did so. christians have ridiculed, ostricized, imprisoned, beaten, and killed those who advanced scientific fact...and they did these things because their erroneous interpretation of scripture was threatened...kinda like what is happening today. many christians blast environmental scientists, even though the vast majority of them believe man is contributing to global warming. it's a power grab. fundamentalist christians counteract by claiming the theories are part of a liberal political tactic to advance their ungodly agenda. but these christians are advancing their own agenda when they cry "heresy" in order to detract from the fact that they may not be the sole defenders of truth.

i've attached a website that leads to a fascinating historical article on the persecution of scientists by the church. enjoy!

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-sciencechristianity.htm

Mrs JM Young said...

Steve, not to stray off the path of your topic (which I agree with you anyway), but I wanted to greet you as I have prayed for you and your ministry over the years.

I knew you when you were at GCC. My name is Wendy Young (was Harvey). My dad is Rufus Harvey. You asked me to play the piano for Grace Bridge one Wednesday and that opened a door to further ministry in other churches I have attended in the mid-west. Thank you for your influence in my life.

Wendy
mrsjmyoung@yahoo.com

Ranchojohnny said...

Just a little arguement from original post.......you mention RW as growing the goatee, doing the hair different, etc and asking if it is a mid-life crisis. I have quite a few vinyls of Steve Camp when he certainly "styled" himself to sell albums. Rick is my pastor and a friend of mine.....the dude is just plain goofy and has no fashion sense. The fact that he would care more about that as he is in the public eye more is understandable, not something to be criticized.

Steve, I loved your music and your steps of leadership in encouraging other Christians to get involved in leading the cause of "justice".