Tuesday, December 04, 2007

The Love of God as Revealed in His Law
...the Ten Commandments

"To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise."
-Galatians 3:15-29 (ESV)

Christ fulfilled the Law and all righteousness by His active and passive obedience in His sinless life culminating as a once for all propitiatory sacrifice for our sins on the cross as our divine substitute. Which now, having been justified by faith, His righteousness is imputed to all who have been predestined, foreknown and chosen before the foundation of the world. By grace, through Christ Jesus our Lord, the law is no longer our judge condemning us (Romans 3:19-26; 8:1) and our tutor pointing us to Christ (Galatians 3:24), but is an instrument of conviction that the Spirit of God uses in our sanctification to conform us to the image of Christ HImself. This is the ultimate purpose of the law, that God may be glorified in our sanctification.

Ten Characteristics of God's Love as Revealed in The Ten Commandments:
(Exodus 20)

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all your heart,
and with all your soul and with all your strength"

Love Toward God:
1. Love is loyal v.3
I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 3 You shall have no other gods a before Me.

2. Love is faithful v.4-6
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

3. Love is reverent v.7
7 You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.

4. Love is holy v.8-11
8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or our daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

"and you shall love your neighbor as yourself"

Love Toward Our Neighbor:
5. Love is respectful v.12
12 Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the LORD your God gives you.

6. Love is harmless v. 13
13 You shall not murder.

7. Love is pure v.14
14 You shall not commit adultery.

8. Love is unselfish v.15
15 You shall not steal.

9. Love is truthful v.16
16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10. Love is content v.17
17 You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

Christ, A Shadow and Type in the Old Covenant
(Leviticus 1-3)

1. Burnt offering
*Atonement: Christ giving His life sacrificially because of His total fidelity to God.

2. Grain offering
*Perfection: Christ wholly devoted to the Father's purpose.

3. Peace offering
*Reconciliation: Christ made us peace with God.

4. Sin offering
*Propitiation: Christ died in our place as our divine substitute. Christ died for God to satisfy His holiness, justice and wrath against sin.

5. Trespass offering
*Repentance: Christ completely paid the price for our sin. Blessed redemption and victory through the perfect sinless life of our Lord Jesus.


JamesN said...

First I just want to thank you for all of your post, they are really a blessing to me and encourage me in my persuit of God. Sometimes your articles are long but I find meat to chew on in them.

I like you article you wrote today about the law and love. I wrote on the same thing on my blog about a month ago. I was in a long string of depression due to my failure as a Christian it seemed to obey the law. I began to find myself trapped by the law and only going deeper in depression.

Then when writting about God's will and the law, I realized and saw all of the love that God had for us when he institued the law. I realized the law was not instituted that I would perfectly follow it, but that it would draw me to Christ, and that it would do that through out my Christian life.

Thank you for you post and reminding me of that love.

Bhedr said...

Amen! His Love constrains us to follow! The gift of God gives birth to this.

{Oh love that will not let me go, I cast my weary soul on thee. I give thee back all the love I owe...}

Ah even there the Holy Spirit must give me what I desire, but He will give it because He has promised.

True strength that comes from God alone. He bears the yoke with us as the young steer needs its father to bear strength and to learn in the twin yoke.

Jeremy Weaver said...

Campi said,
"By grace, through Christ Jesus our Lord, the law is no longer our judge condemning us (Romans 3:19-26; 8:1) and our tutor pointing us to Christ (Galatians 3:24), but is an instrument of conviction that the Spirit of God uses in our sanctification to conform us to the image of Christ HImself. This is the ultimate purpose of the law, that God may be glorified in our sanctification."

You're trying to draw me in, aren't you?

Again, I agree with this post and 99% of the paragraph that I quoted. I just don't think that the Mosaic Law has a major hand in our sanctification. The Ten Commandments are fine, but they have never produced righteousness in anyone. It is God who declares us righteous through the merits of His Son, and it is the Holy Spirit in the work of regeneration making us new creatures that effects our sanctification.
I do believe that where justification is monergistic by nature, sanctification is synergistic by nature. We work with the Holy Spirit in being conformed to the image of Christ. But the very fact that we are new creatures excludes the Law.
The Law was given because of sin until Christ. Till then the Law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. But after Christ, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Aaargh! I let you draw me in!

2Tal said...

We are no longer under God's moral law as a schoolmaster because we set free from sin's condemnation and power and are in Christ. I agree with what Jeremy others say that the law should not be the focus but rather faith in Christ. However, the law is, at least, in all of our memories, like it or not, if we were ever exposed to it. I just can't seem to make a clean break between conviction of sin and breaking God's moral law. Even after salvation sin is lawlessness. I may need futher qualifying here but I don't see what I'm saying here to be incorrect.

DOGpreacher said...

Nice comment 2tal. Paul said,"I had not known sin but by the law",
Not using the law as it is intended to be in evangelism, creates one false convert after another. Without this delineation between right and wrong, what are they going to be repenting of, and to whom?

A person "Born of God", with the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit in him WILL NOT continue to sin (transgression of the law), indeed he cannot, because God's seed remains in him. This shows the 5th point (preservation / perseverance), that God keeps us unto salvation (The Holy Spirit is faithful to convict us of sin...),and because of His seed (Christ) in us we can't continue in sin.
A strong pursuit of the "mind of Christ", renders the point moot. I trust that if I lean not to my own understanding, but desire to know God more every day through His word, and not be swayed by the traditions of men, my God is faithful to His word, and will lead me in the paths of righteousness.

Now, word study righteousness and see how it applies to the topic we are discussing. ...Always...

grateful for grace.

Bhedr said...

Jeremy said>I do believe that where justification is monergistic by nature, sanctification is synergistic by nature. We work with the Holy Spirit in being conformed to the image of Christ. But the very fact that we are new creatures excludes the Law.<

Hold fast right there! I don't think you've been drawn in. I think its a question of angle. The question is has the person fully let go of the Law? He must in order to be saved. you cannot coddle it and enter heavens gates, so the umblilical chord has to fully be cut. Only God knows who has cut it. Man loves the law because it feeds pride and a wantoness to justify himself before the Living God. Enter dependancy entirely on the Holy Spirit and it removes all seizure of pride. The Holy Spirit sanctifies alone. The Holy spirit teaches us in all things and opens up understanding to the graphe.(written Word of God)

I don't know. I think Campi sees this but we all have a tendancey(feelings again) to want to assimalate because of frienships what simply cannot be. It is the grand struggle of men. This is why I steer away from group mentality. I care nothing about going there. I don't care who it is.

Bhedr said...

Jeremy, were you speaking of being drawn into discussion again, or syncronizing the law with righteousness?

Bhedr said...

To everyone else...Trust the Holy Spirit alone as rejecting the power of God himself is what leads to sin. Everything else will only breed a form of godliness. Think about your focus here and what it has been on.

baldtrainer said...

Steve -

As always, you're insights are encouraging and challenging. You ever thought of becoming a teaching pastor?

Bhedr said...

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent" (John 17:3). "Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, according as his *divine power* hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature" (II Pet. 1:24).-

Tim said...


How nice of you to show up again. I am thankful for your stand on justification. I truly am. However, once again, there is an issue here. You seem to indicate by the comments in the previous post and in this one that the Holy Spirit is sort of sanctifying without delcaring what exactly that is. I assume you mean that He is producing in us the fruits of the Spirit found in Galatians. If that is so, I agree with that. No problem. But would you not agree that those fruits, then also, whether you want to use the phrase or not, adhere to the moral Law? Again, if you agree with 99% of the post, I am left wondering, specifically, what 1% (and could you quote it?) that you disagree with.

Again, I am not looking for righteousness to come by the Law. As in our previous discussion, we settled that and agreed on it. However, is our righteousness not seen in right living? Show me your faith by your works (See inspired writng of James). Are you righteous before God? Then you are to demonstrate it by works. That's not justification by works in the legal sense before God, rather it is justification before men that you have been justified before God.

Abraham did the same and James points this out. Though Paul used Abraham to show justification before God, apart from the Law, but through faith in Romans 4-5, James uses Abraham to demonstrate his justification in what he did. Paul speaks of Genesis 15:6 and declares Abraham Righteous by faith. However James uses Genesis 22 to speak of Abraham's justification. Is he saying Abraham was justified in the same sense as chapter 15? No. Notice the words "see" and "say" in the passage of James. What James is concerned with is those who say they have saving faith and no justification in their lives that demonstrate that assertion. My goodness, if we don't have evidence of the new birth and jsutfication before God, how can we ever see God's work in our lives.

Let us be quick to understand also lest we become boastful in our "right living", that Paul tells us in Phillipians 2:13, "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." So we must remember that even behind our "good works"(Eph. 2:10), that we have only the sovereign God to boast in.

Now may He lead us to boast in Him alone by grace, both in our justification, as well as, our sanctification. Amen.

SJ Camp said...


Well said. Thank you,

Tim said...

Just a question Campi: Are you the real Pyromaniac (God's Word shut up in your bones)? Although you and Phil have been together before, I realize you are an artist........maybe there was some Bruce Wayne/ Batman thing going on right before our eyes. LOL

SJ Camp said...


U R 2 funny (LOL).

The real Bruce Wayne is Chad Bresson of “The Vossed World.” He is very articulate, an accomplished journalist/reporter, theologue, and his site is really great. You can check it out on my blogroll… Enter at your own risk :-).

When Phil and I were on an Alaskan cruise with John MacArthur several years ago, I had a few different people ask me on board if we were related... I enjoyed that (he looks more like Spurgeon and I look more like Chris Farley). Phil is a really great guy and I am honored to call him friend. We have ministered on several occassions together and he is easily the most theologically gifted man at Grace Community Church. If you're ever out that way, make sure you hear him teach at GraceLife - his Sunday morning fellowship group at Grace.

To remove any doubt - Phil is the real PyroManiac; but I'm the real SledgeHammer. As true brothers, we are "mentioned together" in Jeremiah 23:29 "Is not My word like fire?" declares the LORD, "and like a hammer which shatters a rock?

I pound it out; he starts the fires. Not a bad "team."

My new blog sign in name will have to be,
"SledgeHammer" :-).

I'm Still Pounding on Wittenberg's Door!
Thanks man,

Bhedr said...

I don't know what Jeremy's answer will be but the whole point to Christs ascension was that 100% of the credit would go to the Holy Spirit. Not even 1% belongs to the flesh. James is not arguing for humanistic fruit which would be of the law but God's fruit alone that will bear out as the Spirit puts the flesh into submission through trials and tribulation. Sweet fruit born by God. Why are some of these law arguments beginning to sound Arminian? Why do you think Peter had to come into an understanding of himself and his weakness before he recieved the Holy Spirit?

*Think* Perhaps some will have to learn this as I am convinced that flesh and blood cannot reveal this.

"Peter? Do you agape me?"

"Lord, you know I phileo you!"

Oh what will it take for one to see, "Thou art the man!"? We will stop at nothing to be pinned down by this truth.

The heart is decietful and always wants to make flesh its strength.

Jeremy Weaver said...

I see no reason in Scripture to say,
Decalogue = Moral Law.

Instead we find,
Decalogue < Moral Law,
or conversely,
Moral Law > Decalogue.

Tim said...

Truly Steve,

Maybe sledgehammer would be a great title for your blog. At least it sounds good, as long as when I pull it up there is no Peter Gabriel music playing in the background.


brother, I must ask a simple question of you. However, before I do, notice that I quoted Phillipians in contradiction of Jeremy and am very clear that God is working in us to both WILL and DO His good pleasure. Now you say,"James is not arguing for humanistic fruit which would be of the law but God's fruit alone that will bear out as the Spirit puts the flesh into submission through trials and tribulation. Sweet fruit born by God." My question is, "what is the flesh being put into submission to?" Is it not God? Then my friend, how can you tell the difference between a believer and non-believer? How can you tell a true profession from a false one?

I am not going to do a complete exegesis of James 2. But for those who might be biblically challenged, I will post chapter 2:

1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Notice that James speaks concerning the law and proves how it is violated (vs. 8). He ties this violation to sin (vs. 9). How are they doing this? They are despising the poor and "buttering up" to the rich that attend the assembly. Notice that we all stand before the Law as those guilty of violating it completely because even if we have only committed one sin, we have broken the whole of the law (vss. 10-11). I dare say, that I have broken each of them numerous times. My sin is clear to all who know me and to myself.

However, notice that verse 12 indicates that we should be on guard against what we SAY and what we do. I love Gill's comments on 12. He says, "Both words and actions should be taken care of; it becomes men to observe what they say, and what they do; for both sinful words and works are transgressions of the law, and will be brought to judgment; every idle word, as well as every evil work, both open and secret, men must give an account of in the day of judgment: wherefore it is incumbent on them so to behave. James is clearly rebuking them for not loving their neighbors. Brothers and sisters this is defined in the Law. Romans 2:12, 16 also speak of the law of nature. This is how men are held accountable to God for their actions and I would submit that the law of nature teaches us that God's wrath is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness of men (See my blog on Katrina).

Then James presents a hypothetical in what not to do to demonstrate your faith. Don't just do it with words, do it with actions. I mean come on. The demons have the same kind of faith that "believing unbelievers" have. Pardon me if I use that term. That's what those in John 2 were who believed, yet Christ didn't commit Himself to them. Demons go one step farther: they tremble.

My question to each who disagree is this? What is the evidence that you have saving faith? How does the Holy Spirit of God manifest holy living in your life. Remember, the words of Matthew: His name shall be called Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins. That doesn't just indicate a saving from the penaly of sin, but that He will deliver us from its power, according to Colossians 2. I am looking forward to another 100+ comments on this post as well.

Bhedr said...

Tim, You said>My question to each who disagree is this? What is the evidence that you have saving faith?<
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering,kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law." Galations 5:22-23

Are we supposed to judge others salvation by how they keep the law? James says this makes us a judge of the law.

I agree with James and he even says that if we offend we are guilty of all of it. You cannot find fruit in the commandments and only the Holy Spirit can control the flesh. 100% as I said before. Even the self-control part comes as a result of Him alone.

What came first? The cart or the horse? God gave Israel the cart first so that they knew it was impossible to carry. Do you know how much an eight disc plough weighs? It is impossible for you to lift an eight disc plough let alone plough with it.Did Jesus save us and tell us to lift the plough? You must have the tractor. This is the Holy Spirit and his strength. Even the tractor analogy is insufficient though because.....*

I now ask you a question. *Is the Holy Spirit subject to the Law? Think carefully about the verse I listed.

Bhedr said...


BTW,I cannot tell what spirit you wrote about the biblicaly challenged but I thank you for taking time to enlighten us poor biblicaly challenged folk and hopefully we will one day earn the credentials to sit at your seat:-)

Tim said...


Thanks for your response. I like the analogy you used, though I agree that we can never have a complete analogy. I understand what you are saying.

My response is this: The Holy Spirit is not subject to the Law. That is true. However, if I may use an analogy, since the Sprit does produce those fruits and Paul says,"against such there is no law", do we not then liken it to the laws here and now. For instance, there are speed limit signs. Now who are the signs for? For the lawbreaker or those who obey the law? They are for both. However, those who break the law are those who can be punished for such a thing. James says as much as well. However, does Christ not deliver us from punishment? Yes. Is sanctification not a process whereby God conforms us to the image of Christ? Is this not what Paul speaks of in submitting to God and esteeming the law in Romans?

I started to get some of what Jeremy was saying before. I see more clearly where he is coming from, I guess I'm just trying to understand repentance from sin from his perspective. Again, because that seems to me to be Paul's clearest statement in Romans is that he did not know sin except by the law and I don't think he meant the dietary and ceremonial aspects of the law. Maybe you guys can help me better understand your position.

Tim said...


I didn't mean it in that spirit. I meant it in light of those who might not actually pull out their Bibles and look at what we are saying. I meant no ill will towards you and you may sit at my seat anytime brother........as long as you kiss my ring first. LOL JK

Bhedr said...

LOL! A good hearty guffaw! I kinda figured as your true spirit seems to be coming out in your writ. I just couldn't resist the opportunity. Can you blame me?

I like your speed limit analogy as it hits home well because I be a truck driver. It is interesting on the interstate to see all the cars and trucks slow down when they see the law waiting in the median; however give it another mile and they are back to doing it again. What could Jesus do to get rid of this compunction within us? He had to kill it on the cross. It died there and now the Holy Spirit now lives and automaticaly has the compunction to do right always. This sprit within me is prone to righteousness as my old spirit is dead and no longer lives. My new spirit no longer needs a law when it automaticaly does it all the time. My flesh however still lives and wars against it. My flesh feeds off the law and loves to disobey it for spite so I must by all means trust only in the Spirit of God. It knows how to work those State Troopers and fool them by always being on the look out for them. I no longer live but my flesh is still here and decaying around my new creation. I no longer have to slow down at medians because I naturaly want to obey.

I just started posting by chapter a book taken from the Green Letters by a man named Miles Sanford. I posted Chapter 1 on the Principles of Spiritual growth. My Dad gave it to me years ago and told me it was one of the best books he ever read. It is very sound and biblical. I hope you take time to read it. Ross Olsen(the father of the President of Northland Bible College) gave it to him. Ross gave me a verse in Corinthians that finaly broke loose my struggle and brought my new creation to the forefront, it was the verse, "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus, so walk ye in him..."Colossians 2:6 The apostle Paul goes on to say that we should beware of anyone who tries to cheat us of this truth, because the fullness of everything dwells in the Godhead. We are complete in Him!

Tim said...


I too am reminded of the apostle Paul in Romans 7. There was a struggle in him, and he concluded with these words: "So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Notice the distinction he places on the law of God and the law of sin. The law of sin is not the law of God, for he says previously in verse 16 that the law is good. To be honest brother I really do wrestle with these things within myself. Yet I think I do see that the Spirit does give us growth in obeying the commands of God. For I see in Paul the issue of chapter 7 is not sanctification, but the unavoidable conclusion that the law cannot save. It cannot justify us.

It appears that as we enter chapter 8 he continues with this. After his doxa at the end of chapter 7 he moves right on into the fact that deliverance is not according to the law, but according to Christ in the power of the Spirit. He then goes on to contrast those who live in the flesh as those who are unable to submit themselves to God and please Him. Then he contrasts those in the flesh with those who are in the Spirit beginning in verse 9 and throws in this little section right here:

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

The thing that stands out for me concerning our discussion here is verse 13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. What is the mortification of the deeds of the body. There is no question that it must begin with the heart. That is what the Spirit must do, for who can cleanse his own heart? What leopard can change his own spots? No one. But the Spirit also works in us to mortify the deeds of our body. That seems as though sanctification works from the inside out, not just stays inside.

These are just some of the things that seem clear to me. Let me know what you think.

Tim said...

One other note: before I was converted I never wrestled with these things. I lived according to the flesh without one thought about it. Now my mind is captive to the Word of God and I want to obey, just as you said in your statement, because God has placed a living desire within my heart with holy affections for Him. SDG

Bhedr said...


Perhaps we do see the same truth and are just engaging in use of words. The vice that Arminians use in living after the flesh is that if you are backslid then you are lost and need to get back in the spirit. The man who believes in Election *Knows* that this old nature is dead on the cross and has a new nature as a result of the resurrection but the flesh is still there like a ball and chain tempting you to think that that old corpse is a much nicer guy than the New Creation of God.

Your flesh is exceedingly wicked and as you feed your New Creation your flesh is starving so it is constantly trying to find a way to feed itself. If you feed that troll then it will grow, just like a blogging troll and then you've got a problem on your hands again and face a distraction that grows worse everyday unless you cut the fuel to it. This is mortification. Not even allowing an ounce of fuel to the flesh lest it grieve the Spirit of God and open a door.

Have you ever watched Braveheart.Remember that guy who betrayed him. Well when you feed the flesh its like tearing the heart out of God and I believe it Knocks the wind out of him to a degree, but those are just my presumptions as I can't base that on scripture, but I do know that he is a jealous God and if you open a door to sinful behavior, sometimes God will withdraw His strength for a time in order for you to learn to stop touching that hot stove. His ultimate goal is to teach you to fully and always walk in the Spirit. Even though King David knew his eternity was secure he also knew it was a fearful thing to disobey.
Consider also the lame man healed that Jesus warned not to sin again lest some worse thing befall you. That worse thing is not eternal for the saved man but present as we reap what we sow. In Psalms 89 God says he chastens with the rod of men(temporary not eternal) but his lovingkindness will not depart from us. It is incumbent that we learn this in order to see the power we have at present from God. There comes a point wherein if you threaten a mans eternal destination constantly then you hide this truth from him. A saved person must see that he stands upon the Solid Rock of Christ yet on this earth you face his chastening hand to purify and sanctify the calling you recieved from him.
If there is any purgatory for a Christian then it is this life alone for the next life we stand secure in Christ and will suffer no more. Peter said"NOW is the time for the children of God to receive judgement and if that judgment exist for us now then what will the end result be for those who reject Christ" Oh my paraphrase as I'm too biblicaly challenged to look it up. Thanks for your patience there:-)

DOGpreacher said...

Tim, my brother, once again you have nailed it. Now, don't let your head swell, or you won't be able to wear that pretty little hat!:)

Thanks Steve for the post. Very well done. Even more so than last weeks infamous law/grace post, this post title begs 1 John references. Paul makes it clear that we are not justified by the law, but also that the law is not void. James says, "you talk a good game, but put up or shut up" (dogpreacher paraphrase), and then John shows us that the way to examine yourself (and others), to see if you are in the faith, is obedience to God's commands.

The new birth, and justification by faith alone in Christ alone is efficacious (causal) towards obedience to God and His commands. This is what we term progressive sanctification. By the definition of that very term, it is a work in progress. That would explain us having varying degrees of understanding. He has personally quickened each of us at the time He had ordained such to be, and is sanctifying us as He sees fit 'for His glory'.

1 John 2:3-5

Notice in verse 5, the keeping of the word is not for righteousness, but evidence of the same, and, in the dogpreacher paraphrase version it reads, v5;"But the one who keeps His word, in this one is the love of God wrought, and matured (he is grateful for grace): This is how we know that He has given us life ,and that we are His child."

We have liberty, brothers, but let us not use that liberty as an occasion to the flesh. Instead let us be at liberty to please the one who gave us that liberty.

God's grace is truly amazing &...I am.....


Tim said...

no question about it bhedr, you are correct on that post. I agree 100%. I see that I fail to measure up, and yet I see myself being sanctified, even more dependant upon the grace of God. Were God to judge me according to my works at this moment I would be no more declared righteous before Him than when I was first converted. However, I believe He is conforming me to the image of His dear Son.

By the way, the priest of the biblically challenged now demands 5 hail marys and an ice cream cone:)


thanks for the exhortation. May our understanding and our sanctification always be to the praise of God's glorious grace.

Bhedr said...

I guess one need go to the next post for the hail Mary, but as for the ice cream? Steve you got anymore of those blue vans? Were there any ice-cream sandwitches?

Ephraim said...


Could you explain how this could be true:

"My response is this: The Holy Spirit is not subject to the Law. That is true."

Maybe I am missing something here, but, is it not axiomatic that the essence of righteousness is to do and speak the truth without any compromise of either one? Would YHWH speak Torah to His called out chosen people, demand that they obey it, while at the same time His very own Ruach is not subject to those same Words?
Moving away from Sinai, let's go to the Yarden river. Yochanan is immersing according to the revelation given him by the same Ruach HaKodesh that spoke at Sinai. Here comes the Lamb of Elohim, He is immersed, and then receives the annointing of the Ruach HaKodesh from His Father.
After His temptations, Yeshua begins to walk His path to the execution stake. How does He walk? According to Torah!

My point: the Elohim of Israel, Adonai, Elohim, Tzva'ot, the Set-Apart One, eternal, with none beside Him is not only subject to Torah, there isn't any difference between Him and His Torah!

No shadow of turning - what would constitute a shadow? Sin. Sin is a disobedience to Torah. Sin produces darkness. Truth is light.
You guys know this stuff.

After ascension example:

1Cr 9:20 "To the Yehudim I became as a Yehudi, that I might gain Yehudim; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain those who are under the law;
1Cr 9:21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Messiah), that I might win those who are without law."

Look at verse 21. What is Sha'ul saying? Let's put it together. Sha'ul walked in the Spirit. He followed Messiah. He used his liberty to preach the Good News of salvation through trust in Messiah Yeshua. But he did not stray out from under Torah just to catch the lawless fish he was after.
He knew he had liberty to walk outside of the rabbinic decrees which had been built up around Torah. But he also knew that he could not abandon Torah for others. As he said, "he is not judged by any man." Only by Messiah. Which, by the way, is the meaning of that part of Colossians that so often gets misused. But that's for another day.

To sum up; there could never be a time when the Ruach HaKodesh (the Set-Apart Spirit) would not be subject to Torah. If He is one, then He is one. Selah.


Tim said...


My answer was in response to the question, not what you jumped off on. God answers to Himself. He is not subject to Himself. Maybe that's where we differ. subject implies being under something or someone. I don't see the Holy Spirit as being subject to the law as men are. I see Him as One above it, in fact, it's giver.

Ephraim said...


I guess I wasn't being very clear. I rushed it through without giving enough time for the proper references. At work and all.

YHWH is, and must be, subject to Himself. Not in the sense that you and I are. We are living finite lives in fragile tabernacles while He dwells in a set-apart place we cannot approach.

But when He left His place in glory (that set-apart place) and took on our form, He was very much subject to Himself.

Consider this verse:

Hbr 6:13 For when God made a promise to Avraham, since he could swear by none greater, he swore by himself,
Hbr 6:14 saying, "Most surely I will bless you, and I will surely multiply you."

YHWH then became subject to the oath He swore by Himself.

Or this verse:

Isa 45:22 "Look unto me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 By myself have I sworn, the word is gone forth from my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

Again, He is subject to His word.

Or this:

Jer 22:5 "But if you will not hear these words, I swear by myself, says the LORD, that this house shall become a desolation."

Being subject to an oath, meaning the word spoken by a person, is not a negative thing. Because we find ourselves so often unfaithful, we shy away from making statements we would become subject to. In fact, when Yeshua warns us not to swear at all, it is for this reason.

No, I don't think that the Ruach HaKodesh would be subject to the physical aspects of Torah as we are. But He is most definitely subject to the principles of holiness and righteousness that have been defined in Torah and elaborated on by Messiah Yeshua. If He were above Torah and did not need to keep it, in heaven as in earth, then we would all certainly be in a fine fix.

The WORD made flesh. In that sentence is the relationship of who He is to what He says.

If I am still not being clear, I apologize. Big eternal concepts, my small mind. Sometimes the words are hard to find.