Perez Hilton asked her the explosive of the night about gay marriage - does she think it should be legalized in all 50 states or not... Carrie was kind, composed, and truthful - she doesn't flinch. Her response was not politically correct and in the end, most think cost her the Miss USA title. Perez grossly exaggerated after the TV show that most people booed her response and then insults her by calling her "a dumb b*%&$." Watch the video below; I'm not certain what Perez was hearing, but the crowd overwhelming supported her comment.
BTW, Carrie is a Christian and according to her bio, her life's verse is Phil. 4:13. I for one am grateful to the Lord for her unashamed conviction on this issue - especially in that arena. Pray for her beloved, for many opportunities will be coming her way to speak on this issue and share her faith in Christ as a result of her gracious boldness this past Sunday evening.
Here is the official statement from the California Miss USA director concerning Carrie's response:
"I am proud of Carrie Prejean’s beauty and placement at the 2009 MISS USA pageant. I support Carrie’s right to express her personal beliefs even if they do not coincide with my own. I believe the subject of gay marriage deserves a great deal more conversation in order to heal the divide it has created."
Keith Lewis
Co-Executive Director
K2 Productions
MISS CALIFORNIA USA and MISS CALIFORNIA TEEN USA
68 comments:
"I'm not certain what Perez was hearing, but the crowd overwhelming supported her comment."I think he has that "selective hearing" bug that's going around.
The guy asked for her opinion, then got upset because she gave it, just because her opinion, based on her Christian convictions, differed from his. She gave a sincere, heart-felt answer, which is what she was supposed to do. She had no pretense, which Perez apparently wishes she had. And she certainly wasn't rude....for rude, well...I gotta go back to the CNN "reporter" who covered one of the Tea Parties last week.....
littlegal
EXACTLY!
Because it was his opinion that she disagreed with, she is being vilified brutally. I have been surfing the web, Twitter, news agencies, etc. on this story. Most support her, but the ones who don't are really over the top vicious to her. The names she is being called are unbelievably shocking to hear.
She is salt and light. Again let's be praying for her today.
May her tribe increase!
Steve
Col. 1:9-14
He ranted later how anyone answering as Miss California with half a brain would have answered and proceeded to share his example. Of good report when someone has the courage to answer with their brain yielding to the mind of Christ.
Do you want to repost that clip with the related videos view disabled? Directs folks to the immodest bikini competition that some Christians would find offensive...and much worse. At least did for me.
Timely words from Spurgeon's pulpit:
"Moreover, beloved, persecution in the church—even when it does not take the form of burning or imprisonment, but of slander, of cruel mockings, jesting, jeering, and venomous spite---in whatever form it is sent, persecution helps to keep up the separation between the church and the world. I fear most the rich when they bring gifts. I loathe the world most when it fawns and flatters."
------Charles Spurgeon, from "Prosperity Under Persecution"
50 years ago this question would have be absurd. And the swimsuit part of the pagent was less revealing as well.
I didn't watch Miss USA myself, though my wife likes to watch these things.
I would have liked her to ask, "What is the definition of marriage?"
Marriage: a state of being married.
Married: Being husband and wife. Having a husband or wife.
Wife: A married woman.
Husband: A married man.
This politically correct society is going to have to change the meaning of a lot of words to have two men marry, or two women marry.
But hey, words don't really mean anything anyway right?
We are in a sad time.
I do appreciate her answer, with all the pressure it's difficult at times to say what's right and good.
So much for freedom of speech and everyone having an equal right to simply express their views.
You know what's always so odd in these situations? It's how the ones who scream the most about the intolerance are the very same ones who are the most intolerant!
Hmmm, what's that called again? The word is right on the tip of my tongue.....
But she was honest, faithful, and true to herself and her own views. And I must believe that such integrity will be honored and rewarded someday, somewhere, somehow. She will be able to sleep at night, I think. Good for her.
I do, however, feel bad for her loss, which was CLEARLY a result of that answer. That's too bad.
RA
JoyceDo you want to repost that clip with the related videos view disabled?How do I do this? Not certain as to how. I appreciate your comment here.
Thank you,
Steve
lynWe all can rejoice that she stood firm on her convictions concerning this issue; born out of her upbringing and her faith in Jesus Christ.
The swimsuit issue has been a staple with these kinds of programs for many, many years. I didn't see the broadcast and only pulled this video from a conservative news-site that wrote about this issue. So I cannot speak to the swimsuit she wore.
But... I did see her white evening gown that she wore while giving her answer that sparked this controversy. It was very appropriate, beautiful, and becoming.
May the Lord continue to strengthen her on this platform she has now been given by God's grace to be salt and light for the gospel and the glory of Christ Jesus the Lord.
littlegalExcellent Spurgeon quote. Thank you.
DonI do appreciate her answer, with all the pressure it's difficult at times to say what's right and good.That's right and that alone should give us pause to pray for her and thank the Lord for a job well done in her response.
It was a most difficult place to put in by someone who was obviously driven by an agenda and not by evaluating a contestant in this pageant.
RAYou know what's always so odd in these situations? It's how the ones who scream the most about the intolerance are the very same ones who are the most intolerant! Bingo! And that is what marks our postmodern culture. There was an agenda behind his words. He wasn't looking for an honest answer, just one that agreed with him (Perez Hilton).
This is what we as believers must be wise as serpents and harmless as doves about in this hour. Speak boldly, clearly, with humility, grace and Christlikeness - with reverence and gentleness - and then trust the Lord for the outcome enduring much slander and persecution some times for speaking the truth in love.
I'm back, Steve. If you go to the youtube link for the video, click on the word embed to the right of the video. That will drop a box where you will see the box checked for related videos that you will need to uncheck. Once it is unchecked, you can copy and paste the address to replace the code you have in your post. If you want a color border or need a different size, you choose those before copying the code. Let me know if you have a problem and I can email you the code. Hope this helps!
Love,
Joyce :-)
Hi Steve,
Let me get back to you on the youtube thing...I want to try it first to make sure I give you the proper code or point how to find it. :-)
I'm not sure how to broach this aspect other than to just proceed. You can delete the post if you like. I wanted more information on the doctrine that Miss California embraced and what I've found so far is the college she attends(their doctrinal stance is universal atonement and decisional regeneration) and her family is Italian Catholic with conservative views on marriage. While I applaud her courage to mention God and stand for what she believes on gay marriage, I also know that some in the gay/lesbian community are searching to see if she belongs to the LDS community(Prop 8 thingy). Am I wrong to be concerned with what Titus 2 doctrine she does adorn as it verly likely then could be a different gospel? Why do I think that would be unpopular in the "Christian" blogosphere ~
http://www.sdcc.edu/About.aspx?ID=46 (this is the school site)
http://medianewsnow.wordpress.com/2009/04/21/1563/ (WARNING: large bikini picture included but only link I could find with the specific reference to her family faith background)
Appreciate your thoughts.
oops, I deleted and then reposted with a warning after addressing the video and should have adjusted the first paragragh. Will check back later. :-)
A perfect example of Liberal "tolerance". You can say anything you like, only if it is politically correct and does not violate Liberal dogma. A powerful example of things to come, especially if the new and improved "Hate Crimes" bill is signed into law. Soon pastors will be facing the wrath of this kind of thing for preaching the very Gospel of Jesus Christ. God help us.
Hi Julius,
I'm weary of seeing several specific highlights today, for certain. It is amazing what is shown on news or TV in general and even the internet these days that would have been considered a big no no not so very long ago. To me. Likewise, speaking in many settings what was very acceptable not long ago is nearing being a hate crime these days(just the other day I found a PTA booklet of my elementary school days...one of the goals: To develop between educators and the general public such united efforts as will secure for every child the highest advantages in physical, mental, social and spiritual education. 1968). I'd like to know specifically what she believes, too, though for now am thinking the school statement, her family background, and aspects of the contest in general say something that should at least cause pause.
This quote by Richard Allestree is relevant to the Miss USA issue and is also convicting to me ~ The lives of Christians are the transcripts of their doctrine.I relate to the homeschooling grasping-at-straws objection by non-homeschoolers. :-)
Using html tags messes with paragraphs?
Steve said "But... I did see her white evening gown that she wore while giving her answer that sparked this controversy. It was very appropriate, beautiful, and becoming."
Seriously? Are ya living in CA, brother? Time to come back to Ohio! Around these parts, showing that much cleavage is considered immodest in most church circles. No one should see that much of a girl except her husband and her doctor!
A friend recounted a story she recently heard at a conference for women. The speaker admonished women to cover up to help their brothers in Christ keep their thoughts pure. She told them that many pastors, in particular, have a difficult time on Sunday mornings as they stand elevated above their congregations looking down on row after row of cleavage staring back up at them!
The President (when he was a Senator) gave the same basic answer as she did to the same question.
She gets excoriated and tossed out and he becomes President.
Ah, the 'left'. The can do as they darn well please and never be called on it by the Democratic Media.
Just a comment on the whole swimsuit aspect of this competition.
I recall reading once many years ago, that this particular part of the competition was to show that the young ladies were in top physical condition, good examples of taking care of themselves physically. While that's a good thing, the swimsuit styles have changed so much over the years that now it really is a "parading half naked on stage" as I've read in several places today. As a Christian mother of 6 girls (and one son), and 2 grand-daughters, I can certainly understand why so many Christians would immediately comment on this aspect today, in light of the news story.
I'm glad this young lady said what she did about marriage, regardless of what kind of Christian she calls herself.
May we EACH have the same courage to speak the truth on this topic no matter what situation we find ourselves in, publicly or privately.
My husband had the news on last night that showed different clips with a gown flung open with walking and undergarment-look swimwear(Jessica Simpson design?) parade. I looked at him and he turned to me with that whoa, woe expression. Southwest Pennsylvania(I'm a transplant) rednecks would say clothing and actions immodest. Others would label us old fuddy duds. The wedding gown of a young lady was shown on a blog not very long ago...California...that would have been thought of as an embarassment to a younger woman being refined in my former and current(OH) neck of the woods, also. The apparel, not even close to Miss California's imprudence, was worthy of room for maturity with age and faith walk as doctrine believed and taught by the family and fellowship is genuinely spot on as were actions those of utmost propriety.
Still, is that THE issue or does it but scratch the surface? Is it which Jesus and that not being paramount in the media and blogosphere concerning what genuinely unites and divides? How ecumenical have we become? Instead is the issue garnering a wink and a pass because of applauding the courage with marriage choice shared(admittedly is worthy of good report)? Rather should believers stand and have the courage to not be politically correct? To not be ashamed of Jesus and His gospel? Counted as sheep for the slaughter? The Biblical Jesus that is the holy God that isn't Jesus plus something and someone concerning salvation. Shouldn't that AND "opposite marriage over gay" be offensive to those that don't take God at His Word? Persecuted for the sake of righteousness...not unrighteousness? Was it error to reference she yielding to the mind of Christ in a previous post?
I'm far from perfected in practice and am grateful for God's grace and mercy while longing for the day when sin is absent. My intent is not conflict within the Body of Christ but rather purity; my concerns have only been broached on two blogs...of one man and woman that have had my respect. Does Philippians 4:8 demand that we love what God loves and hate what He hates? Not for the sake of condemnation but rather because restoration we are to elevate and minister involves understanding what is unrighteous and righteous with the sharp sword of the Lord being two edged for even me.
I've said so much; what do you think, Steve, after more information has come to light?
Having checked out her College and its doctrinal statement , as a reformed minded person I would disagree with with the Arminian view of salvation but I would still consider them brother and sisters in the faith.
It is open for debate about whether a young confessing Christian woman should be a part of these things but that is not the issue at hand. The fact that she had the courage under a mass microscope to state what she did is still commendable. She showed more courage than America's "Pastor" when he danced around the question on Larry King. We need to pray for this young woman and uphold her prayer, hoping older women with love and grace come along side her to encourage her to grow in Christ.
To All
Years ago I was playing an outdoor concert at a fairgrounds in the midwest. I had a full band with me and was one of three Christian artists this group invited to come and sing there.
I sang for about an hour and a half, then proclaimed the gospel at the end of my concert set for about 30 minutes. Several people came up afterwards and the Lord gave the opportunity to again further share with them the good news of the gospel. Some right there repented and confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of their lives. It was tremendous.
A local church in that community had asked me to come and speak at their church services that Sunday morning the following day. I received a phone call from one of the elders at that church who said they were sorry, but that they had to cancel their invitation to have me minister there. When I asked why, they told me that they were horrified that I had used drums to singing songs about the Lord and that they couldn't tolerate such worldliness being associated with the gospel. They saw that people had come to know the Lord the previous evening, but that this was just too much for them to handle.
Let's stay focused on what this article and thread is all about here: a contestant in a beauty pageant stands up for traditional marriage against gay marriage in a highly secularized environment in front of millions of TV viewers, attributes her convictions on this to her faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and to how she was raised by her parents.
That's the issue here. Not everyones personal take on what is appropriate attire for her to wear in this pageant. She is getting massacred in the main stream media right now, and if by chance she were to be reading this blog and thread about her words, I would hope that she would be encouraged in the heat of this battle to stay strong in the Lord, His Word, and that there are people who appreciate her and are praying for her.
FYI, in a follow up interview yesterday morning (mind you on a very liberal talk show) she said that she didn't want to succumb to just saying something that was politically correct, but biblically correct. Amen! Remember, this comment cost her the crown of this pageant. She knew this would happen if she spoke the truth in love. Whatever else the concerns maybe about pageant attire, THAT is worth showing respect and support for.
(One quick comment about the clothing issue that some are concerned about here: I do agree, the swimsuits have become more and more revealing as the years have gone by. I personally don't approve of what was wore this year. There are one piece suits that can show a woman's physical fitness which would have been much more appropriate.)
But let's be grateful to the Lord for what this 21 year old woman said and the massive onslaught of negative ugly obscene comments that are being made against her by the left because of her stance for biblical, traditional marriage. It's not that the other issue is not important to discuss here, but this article and thread is not about beauty pageant attire, but about the courage it took to do what she did for the family.
Let's keep to the main point here...
Steve
Marie P
All Carrie did was give her opinion. She bent over backwards to make sure she didn't "offend" anyone. It was "how I was raised" and not "this is what God has revealed in His Word."Not exactly.
Immediately in follow up interviews she did all day Monday and yesterday she was very clear that her convictions were based on Scripture and born out of the fact that Jesus Christ is her Savior and Lord!
Hope this helps balance it a bit...
Campi
Amen , Steve.She was a brave young woman.
R W S
The fact that she had the courage under a mass microscope to state what she did is still commendable.... We need to pray for this young woman and uphold her prayer, hoping older women with love and grace come along side her to encourage her to grow in Christ.
Bingo!
Campi,
Thanks! I listened to the Today Show follow-up soon after I posted that (everyone is talking about her that it's hard to wade through to actually responses from her), and I thought it was encouraging. I was also glad to read that she told the news that she is praying for Hilton.
Campi said:
"The fact that she had the courage under a mass microscope to state what she did is still commendable.... We need to pray for this young woman and uphold her prayer, hoping older women with love and grace come along side her to encourage her to grow in Christ."
AMEN! And speaking of older women, I am praying a godly woman in her church would take her aside and talk about modesty with her too, something that honestly is not talked about as much as it should, at least in the proper way (immodesty is a problem in churches, not just at a beauty pageant). It really is a Gospel issue because the call to be "discreet" is one of the things we as women are to be in order that "the Word of God may not be blasphemed" (Titus 2:5)
I apologize for what I said before listening to the follow-up. I deleted my comment. I pray that God would give Carrie boldness to continue to stand for God's Word. I have had situations where I felt that I didn't say enough and then had the wonderful opportunity to go back and expand upon what I said. May Christ be glorified!
Just this morning, there were new developments on whether or not her answer actually did cost her the Miss USA crown.
Carrie was interviewed by Megyn Kelly on Fox News. There are new developments in the story. First, it is now known that one of the other judges marked her down for her answer. He (or she?) stated that if he/she “could have marked her down to number 51 (don’t we have 50 states???), he/she would have!”
Isn’t that incredible!!??
She was right (Carrie) when she stated that her answer cost her the crown. There is no doubt now.
In fact, several of the previous CA pageant judges are irritated with her. Carrie says that she is very disappointed that they are not supporting her. She even stated that if they don’t think that she is representing CA the right way ( to the contrary, she is!!!), they can take her crown (for Miss CA) away!
She stated that in pageantry rules, winners are encouraged to stay “neutral” as much as possible. You know…the typical meaningless “world peace” answer! However, the fact that she was asked this loaded question leads me to believe that perhaps they knew she is a strong Christian and wanted to trap her? Did they find a way to disqualify her just because they disagree with her opinion on this issue? It is looking more and more like that.
Prop. 8 passed in CA!!! That means that 52% of Californians believe the same way that she does!! Why are these pageant workers (that’s all that they are - they aren’t God!) are taking it upon themselves to punish a woman who sticks to her faith, integrity, and convictions???
I think it’s disgusting and very cruel!
Carrie was asked what she will do now. Her answer was beautiful - “wherever God takes me.”
P.S. I wonder how the winner would have answered that question? She’s from North Carolina, right? What if she has the same convictions as Carrie? I would love to know that.
Thanks, Steve, for sharing from your heart. :-)
I'm not going to belabor it beyond this post as I agree with you here yet with caution for us all:
Let's stay focused on what this article and thread is all about here: a contestant in a beauty pageant stands up for traditional marriage against gay marriage in a highly secularized environment in front of millions of TV viewers, attributes her convictions on this to her faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and to how she was raised by her parents.And...my concern remains on the aspect of her Biblical correctness and faith...whether that be saving or non-saving must surely be a concern of those that know grace from which love flows? Without grace and love, why would we dare care? We've had two perspectives shared both that be not monergism...from the school being attended and from her family upbringing. If she has been bought with a price(not my place but hers to examine and prove herself if she be in the faith), may she not waste the media platform...even those with a Catholicism lean such as FOX where she has been quite the conversation beginning to end of the day. God has now orchestrated many opportunities her stand on traditional marriage afforded her.
I'd love to give her the benefit of the doubt but from my own extended family know the deception of Catholicism...of synergism ~ surely will continue to pray for her. For the sake of our Lord Savior, Christ Jesus, hope she be strengthened to stand up with an even bolder and defined voice...as a Daniel. So many are watching that can be tossed to and fro in such times as these. And I do hope the Lord have her know that people do deeply care for one another in the faith as He perfects us all and that women would come alongside her as others come alongside and disciple/mentor them. As the Lord wills with humbled hearts in what matters the most concerning her purity from the inside out along with purity of God's church so that the Word of God be above reproach. That's the heart God's given me and encourages in me, even in shortcomings, through sisters and brothers; I don't doubt it be the same for others here though they may not use the same written words.
God bless you ~
Love,
Joyce ><> † <><
Mmmm..Joyce, now you got me thinking. So hard that I deleted what I 'typed'.
Views of those in the 'Christian Religion' vary, and hers is the traditional view. I wonder how Jesus would have replied ?
Peace,
K.J.
Christine
Thanks for the update... Very helpful.
Very respectfully, Steve, I think that the issue of the very immodest bikini she was wearing is a significant part of the issue here, because in your original post, you laud not only her (laudable!) answer regarding "gay marriage", but you lift her up as, effectively, a role model with many opportunities to share her faith in Christ, etc. If you'd stopped at lauding her response only, I'd agree with you, but I argue that while she may be a fine person in many respects, and gave a gutsy answer, her testimony is compromised by her quite immodest choice in attire. She wanted to be, she said, "biblically correct", which I applaud, but that outfit was anything but, and I think that before we lift her up as a paragon of Christian witness, we consider the quite contradictory messages that she sent on that evening.
Though I'm not sure you're doing this, Steve, I believe it's a shame when Christians "swallow" a lot of stuff just to lift up people who get it right in some ways. I agree with a lot of the things Rush Limbaugh says, but he's no paragon of virtue; similarly, Carrie Prejean's total performance that evening is far more a mixed bag than I think your words suggest.
".. her testimony is compromised by her quite immodest choice in attire."
I don't believe it is.
Why did she wear that swim suit?
I don't know. I suppose it's part of the USA pagent swim suit normal way.
Men used to wear tops on the beach.
There is modesty for sure. But how does the Lord see her heart? I don't know.
Just sharing my heart out loud.
Byron,
I'm sure that Steve will have a better reply than mine, but my response is that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" however, so is lust.
Thanks, Christine, and I'm eager for Steve's response, but the issue isn't lust on the part of the looker (though her outfit certainly could incite lust easily, it seems to me), but the modesty appropriate for one who is "biblically correct", in her words. For me, it's simple: if a Christian young lady, in any circumstance, asked me, "would wearing this outfit bring honor to Christ, Pastor", there wouldn't be any hesitation: absolutely not. I'm not sure that women sometimes understand the male mind, how quickly men can be led to lustful thoughts under any circumstances, and how readily such apparel worn by beautiful young ladies does so. And don't kid yourselves: it ain't just me, ladies, it's every red-blooded man in America (endemic to our fallen maleness). Here's the bottom line question:
Steve, would you ever encourage a sincere Christ-following young lady to wear such an outfit, under any circumstances? And if not, how does Miss California get a pass, merely on the basis of one great answer?
Byron,
I can understand your feeling that way. Perhaps the reason that I don't see things your way is because of our gender difference.
With that said, let me see if I can make my point in another way.
Let's pretend that there was such a thing as a middle-aged "Ms. U.S.A. pageant" and I was the CA representative. As a 54 year old woman, I would personally absolutely HATE to put on a bikini and walk across a stage in it. Of course my body would NEVER get the same reaction (more like laughter!!) as Carrie's beautiful figure obviously gets! LOL! However, if such an act gave me the possible opportunity to witness for Christ in front of millions (well, probably a lot less would watch it!) of people - then, for HIM - I would do it.
My obviously dopey illustration is meant to show that two different reactions to the "physical" presence of the Christian isn't what matters the most. If I got the same question while standing up there and answered it in a similar way - then both of us would have accomplished a similar end. So, my questions to you - is one shameful and not the other? Would both be considered shameful?
Carrie Prejean is going to appear at the Rock Church (Pastor Miles McPherson) this Sunday. I will share what she has to say at the service in a future blog post.
From what I have heard her say in dozens of T.V. interviews, she wanted to use the Miss U.S.A. position (as well as her current Miss California role) to share the love of Christ - in any capacity that she can. Therefore, I can safely say that she isn't in pageantry for the wrong reasons.
You may see her answer as just "one moment" of standing up for Christ - but sometimes, that is all it takes to start a spark of a movement for the Kingdom.
Her steadfast faith, courage to speak the truth, grace in fighting back disgusting rhetoric against her with nothing but kindness and goodness, and pointing to Jesus Christ for the reason she lives is a powerful testament and example for young people. Her courage will bring forth many more courageous young women (and men) to speak boldly for Christ - even when a firestorm of controversy and protest might erupt.
Carrie was David to Perez Hilton's Goliath. Her answer didn't physically "kill the beast," but it certainly stunned him! It also stunned many more like him. Those celebrities who took his side came out to share in the bashing party.
Ephesians 6 comes to mind.
Especially these verses:
Eph 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
Eph 6:7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
Eph 6:8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether [he be] bond or free.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
This last verse is a life verse for me:
Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
I know Steve wants to keep the main thing the main thing here, and I respect that.
However, I can't let this slip by as it does pertain to being a public example of someone professing a Biblical worldview.
donsands, you quoted Byron saying
".. her testimony is compromised by her quite immodest choice in attire."
to which you responded:
"I don't believe it is."
Since numerous people (Christians and non-Christians alike, via various blogs, news bits, etc.) have already commented on her attire being oddly contradictory with her words) then I would have to say that yes, her testimony has been compromised by what she was wearing in the pageant. I realize it's standard pageant attire and that all the young ladies were dressed in similar styles, but that's not the point. The point is she said something that coincides with a Biblical worldview but she was dressed in a way that definitely conflicts with that same worldview.
I think we all need to be mindful that while we can SAY the right thing, our actions (and yes, even appearance) can and do often speak much louder than what comes out of our mouths. Being careful that they all line up, is something each of us should be concerned with.
For what it's worth.
Christine,
Great analogy--and I'm sure that the sight of me, a 48-year-old guy, in a Speedo would provoke a similar reaction!
Now, that said, here's what your rationale sounds like; correct me if I miss it: "the end ("speaking for Christ to millions") justifies the means" (dressing in an inappropriate outfit--inappropriate, IMHO, for 54-year-olds and young ladies alike, though one could, I suppose, make the argument that the "lust factor" is lessened when such garments are displayed on us middle-aged folk!). It's never right to do wrong to do right, I believe--and I think Steve believes that--and I think that's what your reasoning comes off as. To use a different analogy, what if instead of wearing a skimpy bikini, she had performed in a talent portion (does Miss USA have such? I don't know...) by singing some suggestive song, rapping out a nice hip-hop tune with its vulgarity instead of dressing so immodestly? I'd hope that you'd agree with me that such actions would compromise her witness, making her words ring more hollow than they might otherwise. As I see it, there's no difference whatever.
I don't mean to suggest, by the way, that Miss Prejean's answer was the only moment of her "standing up for Christ"; I know nothing of her life, and from what you've said, it seems she does so on more than one occasion, and that's great. My only point is that her words are compromised by her immodesty.
I wouldn't begin to presume to question her motives for being in the Miss USA pageant; it may well be that everything she says is true about wanting to gain a platform to speak for Christ. But that's not the point at all; it's not why she did it, but what she did. You suggest that other young ladies might be emboldened to speak up for Christ; I'd counter with the just-as-likely scenario that other young ladies might join in our society's rush to jettison modesty, lowering (still further) any sense of Christian modesty, inciting more young men to lust as they parade their bodies barely clad. See what I'm driving at?
And still dying to hear our friend Steve's take...
By the way, I think Carla makes a trenchant point as well...
"The point is she said something that coincides with a Biblical worldview but she was dressed in a way that definitely conflicts with that same worldview." -Carla.
Maybe. It was not modest for sure.
I wonder if here attire mattered to the judge who asked the question? I doubt it. He simply wanted her to say homosexuals should be able to be married.
She said no. And he hated her for that answer.
I could be wrong, and maybe she should have never been a Miss California, or maybe she should have dropped out of the swimsuit portion. I don't know.
I remember when I was a young Christian, and I was fired up about the things of God. I ended up in a Holiness Church. But I was happy hearing the Word, and worshipping the Lord.
I mentioned one day in the winter that i couldn't wait to hit the beach this summer.
You would have thought I was a minister of Satan.
I was told if I went to the beach, that i wasn't a Christian, and that the Holy Spirit never goes to the beach where there are half naked women.
I argued for a while, but said, "I'll pray to the Lord, and read His word, and see what he says."
I did go through a period where I felt guilty for going to the beach. But God helped me see His will after a season.
I was set free to enjoy the beach, and even serve the Lord at a Christian Coffee house.
I'm not sure why I'm saying all this. Maybe I shouldn't have.
Should Christian's dress modestly? Absolutely. Do all Christians do this? No.
The Body of Christ needs all the members to be speaking the truth in love to one another.
Campi's blog is a wonderful place to do this.
"The Body of Christ needs all the members to be speaking the truth in love to one another. Campi's blog is a wonderful place to do this."
Amen to both points.
:-)
Christine's blog shot me over to this discussion and it's a great one!
A little intro of myself here: mom of two twenty-something daughters and attire used to dominate our talks when they were in high school.
But my daughters know I hate beauty pageants primarily because of the "skin" factor. As been mentioned throughout this post is that we women should always adorn ourselves modestly. But with beauty pageants, modesty is not considered a "winning" trait as beauty is always associated with the physique and not the spirit.
I refused to watch the pageant, but with my youngest daughter wanting to me watch so that we both can talk about it, I made a deal with her to watch only when the ladies got up to answer their questions. That way I didn't have to sit and cringe through all the parading. So at first, amusement at THE question, then you can imagine our delight in Carrie's answer she gave Perez Hilton! We were both shouting to Jesus with joy!
Right now is the time that Carrie needs our encouragement because of the beatdown she's getting from the world. The "attire" talk needs to be done with Carrie but who knows, I have the feeling it won't even be necessary because some of the criticism she's already getting from the world (and some of us fellow believers) about her being involved with this pageant while taking a stand against "other ills." There are contradictions that have to be addressed and as a role model, I hope she would never encourage young girls to involve themselves with "showing skin" so that they can win a scholarship and other worldy benefits.
As an older woman who's commanded scripturally to teach the younger women, I'd personally love to talk to Carrie about her the whole beauty pageant thing ... but as Ecclesiastes tells us (3:1 I think), there is a right time for everything -- and NOW is not the time to criticize her about what she was wearing.
She needs our encouragement and praise for what she did - stand up against the world to side with Christ!
Just my 200 cents! :) - Carlotta
Carlotta,
I agree with most of what you say. My take would be that the intent here is not, per se, to criticize Carrie--again, I'm glad for the answer she gave and the stance she took--but rather to suggest that we not rush to make her this role model for our young ladies. She's done some things very correctly and courageously, and I agree with Steve on those. But we can't turn a blind eye, either, to the elephant in the room. I wouldn't be ready to have her in my church to give a testimony for Jesus anytime soon (and it disappoints me that Miles McPherson is doing that), but I can at the same time appreciate much of what she said and stands for.
Still hoping to hear Steve's take (I'm real sure he's never been one to shy away from addressing a controversy! :)
A couple of quick thoughts:
First, Ms. Prejean has proven that there was nothing to be gained with respect to her professional ambitions by being straightforward about her faith and Christian worldview.
Second, she’s very young. Don’t you think that some of the tempering and wisdom with regard to choices that might offend a brother or sister (which many have expressed in their comments here) often comes with maturity? She’s still very young. Let’s give her time and room to do just that; mature. But let’s not jump to the conclusion that her testimony has been diminished or negated because she could have shown better judgment in her choice of a swimsuit.
As a mom of two beautiful Christian teenage girls, I know what an ongoing challenge this issue can be. Not just from my perspective, but I know how much they sometimes struggle with it too. Do they always make the choices I would want them to in this regard? No. We don’t always see eye-to-eye. However, I’ll never forget how much effort and thought my daughter put into her search for the perfect homecoming dance dress because her heart’s desire was to honor Christ while having a wonderful evening with her friends. For me, that is paramount – a heart’s desire to honor Christ. I sense this is Ms. Prejean’s desire as well.
A nervous Christian gets a hot potato question and after being caught off guard she gives the correct answer, even making sure people knew she wasn't judging anyone. The swimsuit issue? Probably unwise but we might allow the Lord to show that to her as well as show us our unwise behavior.
What we do not need to do is dismantle her publicly because she is imperfect. The issue of women's dress is certainly an issue for another time. Let us rejoice in small victories.
Rick
Bingo!
A thought came to my mind today.
In swimming competitions, men often wear those awful speedo swimsuits. They are very clingy...if you know what I mean.
Two questions.
Why is that not considered immodest?
Why would a Christian man not be considered a strong witness for Christ (if he is a believer) despite wearing such an article of clothing for a swimming competition?
To Rick, I'm in agreement that she not be "dismantled publicly"; nothing in my posts, at least, was intended to do that. I'm simply asking that she not be made into the latest "Christian celebrity" whom we trot out to testify so boldly when there are issues that are inconsistencies, and significant ones.
Frankly, Steve, I'm a little surprised and disappointed that "bingo" is the most you're willing to say about this issue which I think is quite germane. You so rightly stood against the commercialization and phoniness of your industry, the lack of depth of Christian lifestyle that you saw; I'm a little surprised that you'd (as I read it) rush to defend/lift Carrie up, and then not specifically deal, at least briefly, with this legitimate concern. I find myself wondering what your mentor, Dr. MacArthur, would say about her attire...
And Christine, maybe somebody else will, but you won't get me defending Speedos on men (and you definitely won't get me wearing one!).
Byron wrote:
And Christine, maybe somebody else will, but you won't get me defending Speedos on men (and you definitely won't get me wearing one!).Would you do it for the Lord?
Would you do it if your wearing of a speedo in a competition allowed you the opportunity to share the Gospel of Christ and the truth of the Bible to millions of people?
P.S. Please see this article regarding celebrities who claim to be Christian and how they compromise the truth.
Randy Thomasson blog: Miley vs. Jesus on marriageFYI - I brought our conversation over to my blog so feel free to comment there also.
Byron
I only said bingo in relation to that one comment.
Also, calling Christian music industry to return to the Lord is a bit different than addressing a secular pageant organization. What I hope I've made clear here is that we should support Carrie in the stance and testimony she gave and continue to pray for her in her sanctification as well.
I certainly haven't arrived by a long shot; I need your prayers too.
Hope this helps a bit more to clarify.
Grace and peace to you.
Steve
Sure, Steve, there are differences, many in fact. In fact, my only intended point of comparison (which I probably didn't make clear enough) is that we take care (all of us, you and ME included!) to watch over all facets of our lives, and that being the case, the parallel becomes that those who are "on stage"--CCMers, beauty pageant contestants, preachers, etc.--purporting to represent Christ need to be very careful to be circumspect in every area of life, and the upshot/corollary is that those of us "fans" (pardon the term) ought to not lift people up on pedestals to begin with, and ought not ever excuse/brush under the rug inconsistencies or glaring issues on the grounds that "he's a bold representative of Christ", or something.
And for my part, I think we've exhausted the subject (least I have!), and I do thank you for the bold stance you take, on this blog and elsewhere, for Christ and His kingdom. You have some great readers here!
I personally do not think a believer should participate in those events. However, I am still willing to give that young woman credit for saying the truth even at her own peril. That is all I am saying.
PS - I would not want to see Steve in a speedo! LOL
Perhpas the Lord has given us another glimpse at what is at stake, when one simply says, "I think marriage is between a man and a woman."
Suppose the judge would have asked her, "Do you think that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven, and all those who don't believe in Jesus Christ shall be condemned?"
And she said, "Yes I do."
What would have happened then?
If we as witnesses for the Gospel have a tough time with being mocked and hated in our culture, how much tougher is it going to be if we are imprisoned and perhaps even put to death for our faith.
I would imagine most Christians would say, "Come on, it's not going to get that bad. This government is still civil."
I don't know. But we'll see in 20 years. I hope this nation would return to the Gospel. But it looks like America is on a steep slope of slimey sin and anti-truth, and the fall is inevitable.
Lord bless us all this Lord's day, so that we can serve one another in His grace and love.
To All
The biblical story of redemption is comprised continually of two things: the greatness, goodness, glory, love, mercy, and grace of God; and the flawed, broken, sinful, imperfect, frail lives of men.
"We hold this treasure in jars of clay..." Let's not focus here on the imperfections of the vessel, but on the witness for Jesus this young woman gave for the Lord and His truth.
Amen?
It's not about people on stages being bold but yet flawed, it's about Him and His truth and His gospel and His glory.
Pray for Carrie and thank the Lord for her today.
Steve
2 Cor. 4:5-7
Eric and All
I have deleted your comment because it cast inflammatory, false imagrey against Miss California that even you had to question yourself. That will not be tolerated here.
Stay on theme please without the unnecessary invectives or refrain from commenting further.
Let's keep the comments here redemptive in nature and not accusatory based upon personal taste or accommodation.
Thank you,
Steve
Hey,
I thought the post went thru your screening before posting. That particular post was for your eyes only as a response to your comment. You were correct to remove it.
Eric
EricThank you for sharing that brother.
Steve
I realize that I'm a bit late to this thread, but work keeps me busy these days.
I was reading through the comments and found it interesting to find Byron commenting. Byron was my pastor for a while here in PA, and I know him to be a fair-minded, yet uncompromising individual. I just wanted to say thank you to him for his stance on this issue. I couldn't agree with him (and Carla) more.
It's not a matter of dismantling the young lady, but it is a matter that she has compromised herself in this issue. It is simply impossible to get past that, no matter how much we'd like to. I personally didn't find her answer to be 100% Biblical anyway. She said that it was great that in America we have the right to choose (regarding our sexual orientation? not sure exactly what she meant there). I don't read that in the Bible.
Yes, she may have been caught off-guard by the question. But whether she should have even been in that position in the first place is not something that can just be ignored because of her close-to-correct answer.
What I pray for this young lady is that God would speak to her heart issues that allowed her to be in this compromising position. We all have our points of weakness regarding our lives in Christ (I've struggled with the issue of modesty myself), and unfortunately hers was on display in front of the world. I pray that He would send mature believers into her life to sharpen her like iron sharpens iron. And I pray that He would comfort her with His grace when she comes to the realization of her indiscretion.
May 1, 2009
Chancellor Jerry Falwell, Jr
Liberty University
1971 University Boulevard
Lynchburg, VA
Dear Chancellor Falwell,
I recently read of your interview with Miss California, Carrie Prejean. Obviously, almost anyone living in America has heard of her courageous stand when asked what she believe regarding the judge Hilton Perez’s question regarding homosexual marriage rights. I, myself, watch a video of her answer as well as his obscene blog statement. Personally, I wonder why Donald Trump, the owner of the pageant who have anyone of his character as a judge of what are suppose to be “wholesome” American young ladies event.
Mr. Trump actually revealed his agenda in a TV interview during the pre final judging when he publicly admit that his whole purpose was to make the swim suit competition as sexual and revealing as possible including 6” spike heels. He further made reverence to the evening gowns being so tight that it would reveal as much as possible while making it almost impossible for the women to walk. He, in fact, did everything he could to present the women in a sensual manner to promote viewers, especially men, who would lust after these women as they paraded themselves in front of millions of viewers internationally. I believe that he achieve his goal while even fighting with NBC over the extreme sexual nature of the various attire.
With in mind, I question Miss Prejean’s commitment to her Christianity (you shall know them by their fruits) when she can submit to a pageant that clearly is sensual in nature throughout as the above objectives by the owner and promoter. Personally, I don’t believe that Jesus Christ and Biblical values need be defend by anyone dress in such a manner. I strongly believe that no one will stand before Jesus Christ, a Holy, Almighty God, dressed as she chose to do so for the sake of a worldly crown.
In closing, I am surprise and saddened to see that you so highly honor her as the speaker at convocation and as well as feature her on Liberty Live. Obviously, modesty has lost its value as far as Liberty’s values are concerned.
I think the Liberty frog just got boiled to death.
Sincerely,
P. Jack Driscoll
I am sad to see your position in this matter. I pray that you will have a change of heart. I do not wish any "ill will" towards Miss California. I pray that she turn to the Lord and make a clear testimony for Jesus. The Christian Church needs to stand strong in these days. Thank you for allowing me to comment.
Steve,
I preach regularly in front of a strip club frequented by perverts than expound very eloquently to me on the love of God. I tell them that God's forgiveness is conditional- (except ye repent, if we confess) no-one ever went to hell because God didn't love them, but because they rejected his love.
I don't believe this "gentleman's club" has ever had such an "evangelistic" event such as the Miss USA pageant, but I'm sure Ms. Prejean would not be opposed to such a venue, and that her message and method would be much more welcomed than my own. Please see what you can do to set it up.
Kevin O. Pulver
Kenesaw Nebraska
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