Tuesday, October 21, 2008

...open idolatry by Benedict

One of my daily stops in the blogosphere is to my friend James White's blog. I found this jewel tonight written by Tur8infan on Mariolotry. 

Despite popular opinion beloved, Papa Ratzi is not an orthodox Christian leader/pastor. He is a lost, unregenerate false teacher (2 Peter 2:1) who preaches a different gospel (Gal. 1:6-9) making his converts "twice the sons of hell (the Valley of the Son of Hinnom) as he is" (Matt. 23:15). We need to pray for him. Pray earnestly that God would grant him saving faith; that by the kindness of God he would repent from his sins and from Rome's false gospel and doctrines; and that He would confess Christ Jesus as Lord and trust in Him alone by grace alone through faith alone for salvation by regeneration of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:4-7).

When you read below about the kind of heretical practice that Rome still engages in, it makes you want to shout SDG for the courage of Martin Luther in taking the monumental stand at Wittenberg in spite of being threatened with execution and excommunication. He fearlessly called a recalcitrant Roman Church back to the real gospel of justification by faith alone - and we need to do the same in our day. Rome's codified, semi-Pelagian, apocryphal doctrines (Matt. 15:6b-9) - and in particular here, the Fifth Marian Dogma - haven't changed really since the days of Trent.

Keep pounding on Wittenberg's Door; we need a new Reformation in our day... Amen?
2 Cor. 4:5

by Tur8infan from Alpha Omega Ministries
Benedict XVI is reported (link to report) as recently praying to Mary:
"We implore you to have pity today on the nations that have gone astray, on all Europe, on the whole world, that they might repent and return to your heart."
This is a prayer that is openly idolatrous. Mankind needs to turn, not to the heart of Mary, but to the Son of Mary, Jesus Christ the Righteous. The true and proper object of worship is God alone.

Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Benedict XVI as praying to her,
"If you will not help us because we are ungrateful and unworthy children of your protection, we will not know to whom to turn."
This prayer demonstrates the underlying blindness of Catholicism. There is a place to which not only all of Europe in general, but Mr. Ratzinger in particular ought to turn for help, and whose protection should be sought: the throne of the Most High God, by the intercession of the Son of God, Jesus Christ with the aid of the Holy Spirit.

But though Jesus is the Son of Mary, and though Mary is greatly blessed to be the Mother of our Saviour, yet Jesus himself said:
Matthew 12:48-50 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the 
will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
And again:
Mark 3:33-35 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? 34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
It's as almost as though Jesus was concerned lest some might foolishly fall into the trap of worshiping his blood relatives! Indeed, here is Jesus' own condemnation of the error of adoration and veneration of Jesus' mother. They do not hold a special place in the kingdom of God, but are like all those who do the will of God. Yet Catholicism, as can be seen from this event, continues to elevate Mary improperly to the status of, in effect, a goddess to whom prayers are offered.

Benedict XVI did not even omit to provide a sacrifice to this de facto goddess. It is reported that, "In a gesture of filial love, the Pope then offered the Madonna a golden rose." One is reminded immediately of the similar offerings presented by the Philistines to the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament, particularly given Catholicism's claim (or at least the claim of her apologists) that Mary is the "ark of the New Covenant."

Finally, we should note that Benedict XVI is reported not to have left Jesus entirely out: "...The secret of Pompeii is the rosary: "This prayer leads us through Mary to Jesus." But, in fact, the Rosary leads men away from Jesus, as can be seen in the idolatry illustrated in the prayers above. Benedict XVI is reported to have claimed, "The rosary is a spiritual weapon in the struggle against evil, against all violence, for peace in hearts, in families, in society and in the world."

But, in fact, sadly it is an extra-Scriptural innovation: unknown to the apostles and unpracticed for centuries and centuries following Christ's ascension. The Early Church Fathers didn't say the Rosary, and neither should you: it is a tradition of men, not of God.


Dean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dean said...

I agree that Mariolotry isn't biblical, but I take major issue with the doctored pictures of the Pope. I think they are rude and in poor taste.

He is made in the image of God, just like all of us. I don't think any battles over theology will be won by treating people we disagree with disrespectfully.

SJ Camp said...

I think you are correct. Pictures changed.


donsands said...

I have heard all the doctrine of Mary, and it tries to force this into Scripture.

For instance Catholicism says that Mary is the Mother of God. Yes she was, but they twist it, and make her so she was sinless, and couldn't be anything but sinless, BECAUSE, only a sinless woman would be able to be the Mother of God.

My mother is now in a superb nursing home, which is overseen by Polish sisters of the Immaculate heart of Mary.
I have had some fairly awkward discussions about this doctrine, for the head sister asked me if Mom was a Catholic, and I told her to simply put her down as a Protestant, which she is.
They still welcome her, and are tremendous servants, and they truly care for the elderly with great affection. And yet there's this false religion throughout the home.
I believe the Lord has my Mom here for a witness, and for me to witness as well.
Pray for me as I contend for the Gospel, and love these dear sisters, and yet shy not away from speaking the truth of Sripture.

Reform said...

Good post Steve.

How troublesome and blind Rome truly is on this issue. There is one mediator between God and man - the Man Christ Jesus!


Derek Joseph said...

Those pictures are much more flattering than Luther's cartoons. :)

Ratsinger kind of reminds me of the Emperor from Star Wars, though. "Luke... I feel your self-righteousness. Embrace your intrinsic bent towards moralism; your transformation to the dark side of works-righteousness is nearly com-plete."

There was a talk at College Church (in Wheaton) recently about RCism - and how your average RC doesn't have any clue about RC soteriology; the biggest problem is the idolatry of the religion.

I think that's probably a very warranted conclusion, and a frightening thing.

winslowlady said...

The tentacles of Catholicism run deep in S. Louisiana. Homes everywhere have Mary statues in front (a perfect mark to know what house to leave a tract). Most Catholics I know will deny they worship Mary--as they light candles, pray the rosary, pray to her, call on her, and bow to her statue. They rephrase with "we adore her, acknowledge her, think of her as special." All the while they are deceived. The wonderful thing is that when I point out specifics they listen.

It has been my greatest joy to have led several Catholic friends to Christ. Once they know the truth, and once they see the discrepancies, they are overwhelmed with love for truth. Their (wrongful) fear of God gives them a rightful fear of God that with truth brings much understanding.

Don, I went to a Catholic nursing home for a year and witnessed to many. I read Scripture and sang from my hymnbook. I sat with those who held rosaries, gave them truth, and watched tears flow from their eyes, many times. I witnessed to the nuns in the convent and to a few of the priests in the monestary. My stay was only for that year. The head nurse asked if I was the one who "sang songs and read the Bible to people." I said yes. She said I was not to come back.

All these churches go to this nursing home and do "church" with them at different times. It aggravates me because if they told the truth to these elderly and dying they too would be put out.

The fear of speaking the truth about Catholicism is rampant here. Baptist pastors marry their people to Catholics with the priest and pastor at the front of the church (and one pastor is a top dog at the SBC). Intermarriage has diluted the gospel in our churches as well.

The issue of Mary is a key in gaining the ear of those we are witnessing to. If you understand how to logically go through this you gain a Catholic's ear.

I recommend my good friend Tim Kaufman's book "Quite Contrary" by White Horse Publications. Also helps with the Muslim/Mary/Catholic connection.

Thanks for this post sjc.

Anonymous said...

I know quite a few Catholics and have had numerous discussions with them about their worship styles, beliefs and practices. However, Mary worship has never once come up in any of those conversations. When I ask them about it, they dodge, deflect, downplay or even downright refuse to talk about it.

Is this perhaps because even "faithful" Catholics recognize the incongruence between Scripture and the teachings of the Catholic church on this subject?

If so, how does one justify faithful adherence to a belief system that allows for such a contradiction?

donsands said...

Thanks winslowlady. I'll have to dig that book up.

I have had a conversation with one of the sisters, and we discussed the Lord's Supper, or Holy Eucharist.
It was a bit heated. She said with fervor, "Jesus said, 'This is My body.'"
And I tried to explain our Lord was speaking to His disciples in John 6 spiritually, not physically.

He is the bread of Life. Evene King David tasted the Lord, and saw that He was good.
Jesus is also the door.

So it was a good start, and I try not to come off as if I'm right and they are wrong.
But instead I point to the Scriptures are right, and they are our authority.

bretts said...


“If so, how does one justify faithful adherence to a belief system that allows for such a contradiction?”

The catholic faith is based on a CONTRADICTION. The catholic church preaches Jesus Christ and him crucified; hence all of the crucifixes in their churches. The cross of Christ is a contradiction to the world.

- Behold this child is set for the fall, and for the resurrection of many in Israel, and for a sign which shall be contradicted - Luke 2:34

- But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest; for as concerning this sect, we know that it is every where contradicted - Acts 28:22

Ps- When you ask those catholics why they worship Mary, and they don’t answer and give you funny looks; it is probably because they don’t worship Mary. It’s kinda like asking, how many times a week do you beat your wife?


Anonymous said...

Bretts: I think I was unclear. I did not mean to indicate that I was putting Catholics on the stand or under a hot lamp and asking them "Why do you worship Mary?" The conversations we have had that involve Mary worship within the the belief structure of the Catholic church in general.

Also, I don't mean to be dim here, but I fail to see where my question about the contradiction of the teachings of Scripture and the worship of Mary in Catholicism and the verses you cited connect.

Any further clarification you could offer would be appreciated.

winslowlady said...

The tie between Muslims and Catholics is Mary.
This is a quote from www.catholic.org:

"So just what is the connection between Our Lady of Fatima and Islam? Francis Johnston, in his book, Fatima: The Great Sign, gives a cogent explanation: "The Muslims, who have a certain devotion to Our Lady and recognize her Virgin Birth and Immaculate Conception, were intrigued by the fact that Mary had appeared at Fatima, which was the name of Muhammed's favorite daughter and regarded by the prophet as the highest woman in Heaven after our Lady. In Zanzibar, the Muslim sultan placed a wreath of flowers at the [Fatima]statue's feet, while the Muslim chief of the Ismaeli tribe in Mozambique placed a golden necklace about the statue's neck saying: 'Thank you, Our Lady of Fatima for the work of love you are accomplishing in Africa' " (p. 126)."

The Catholic Catechism clearly says that Muslims are sisters and brothers because of their belief in the God of Abraham. My neices, both indoctrinated in Catholic schools and churches were required to know and "understand" that Muslims were part of the body of believers. This taught in their religion courses. And the connection is Mary.

Don, one thing you might ask the nun is who is the woman in Revelation 12. If she's true to her Catholic doctrine and the papal bulls, she'll tell you it's Mary. If she says this then ask how a sinless woman can have pain in childbirth...that was the curse to Eve.

bretts said...

Hi Josephmcbee,

Further clarification: The bible does not teach Christians to worship Mary, the Catholic Church does not teach Christians to worship Mary, and Pope Benedict XVI does not worship Mary or teach others to worship Mary. So on that point there is no contradiction. Any Christian that worships Mary is in grave error, because God alone is worthy of worship.

Sorry, the verses were not meant as a direct application; you just reminded me that as Christians we have to be careful when recognizing contradictions because the Lord we worship is a sign of contradiction.

- For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. Philippians 3:18

bretts said...

Hello Winslowlady,

What a coincidence I live in S Louisiana as well. I’m not sure I understood the point of your comments; but I will be on guard for any stray “tentacles”.

You wrote: “The issue of Mary is a key in gaining the ear of those we are witnessing to.”

If you don’t mind a little friendly advice; you may want to rethink any witnessing techniques or strategies that don’t make the issue of Jesus Christ the key.

No offense to your good friend Tim Kaufman, but if one actually wanted to know catholic teaching on Mary a good source would be the many! books of Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict). I have always found that primary sources provide the best information.

The peace of Christ be with you,

blackreformingkid said...

I personally do not endorse the doctrine of Mariolatry and never will. Mary is only mentioned sparingly in the NT and always in relevance with Jesus Himself. Somehow Catholicism hasn't quite noticed that...

winslowlady said...

Hi Brett, thanks for your comments. My comments were pointing out that Mary worship isn't just Catholic but a tie with the fast growing religion of Islam. These ties run deep and the more Islam races forward as it has in France, the more Mary devotion will play an important role in tying the two.

Tim Kaufman is a former Catholic. He's a godly man who is now a lead designer at NASA on the international space station. Tim has a publishing company on the side where he publishes several books he's written on Catholic issues. Tim's book is on Mariology, Mary worship, Marian apparitions and the contradictions to Scripture in them all. He quotes from many Popes, the early ones as well who brought in this doctrine and goes through how the papal bulls introduced Mary worship into the Catholic Church. It did not begin with this pope at all, but began many years ago.

It has been my own witnessing experience with Catholics that when I show them I have cared enough to understand their religion, and usually know more than the average Catholic does, they then respect what I have to say because I have taken the time to understand their doctrines. They will say they believe in Jesus, believe He died on the cross, etc. People stop here with Catholics thinking they believe the gospel so of course they are saved! Not so. You must show them they are adding to the gospel. It's not Jesus (as right as they sound) and Mary. So you have to deal with Mary. If you don't deal with Mary you can walk away from a Catholic thinking they are saved as many people do. They sound so right about Jesus even to the point of saying Jesus alone saves. But when you start asking them about Mary you find out really quick that they don't at all think it's Jesus alone even though they voice that. They have heard enough of Jesus alone to say it themselves without fully understanding that means no Mary. So you have to deal with Mary. That's all I'm saying. When they understand they can't have Mary help out, then they see Christ and Christ alone. I have sat with many Catholics who friends believe to be saved. It takes about 5 minutes and asking the right questions to see that they are not saved because their version of Jesus alone saves means Jesus alone saves because Mary told him to save me.

vaughn said...

It may not always be popular to expose the heretical doctrines of the RCC, but the information you have provided is both useful and much appreciated. Thank you.

bretts said...


I’m not familiar with the “doctrine of Mariolatry”, but I agree with you that it doesn’t sound like something I would endorse either. However roman catholic doctrine on Mary is always in relevance to Jesus himself, so maybe you haven’t quite noticed the actual teaching of Catholicism.


Thanks, for all the warnings! I have also heard that catholic mary worship may well have been responsible for the 9-11 attacks on the twin towers.

Vaughn wrote: “the information you have provided is both useful and much appreciated”
Useful I guess depends on what you are USING it for; but does it matter to you if the information is TRUE or not?

Since Martin Luther was referenced in the original post; he did a pretty good job of summarizing catholic doctrine on Mary:
"One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God’s grace…Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ…Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God ... Our prayer should include the Mother of God…What the Hail Mary says is that all glory should be given to God, using these words: "Hail Mary, full of grace ...We can use the Hail Mary as a meditation in which we recite what grace God has given her. Second, we should add a wish that everyone may know and respect her." - (M Luther - prayer book)

~Mark said...

The biggest obstacle I've encountered in speaking with not just Roman Catholics but Catholics of every denomination is the understanding of the personal and direct relationship with God afforded us by the sacrifice of Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit upon salvation.

I would like the opportunity to ask their pope himself if The Holy Spirit would come to live in the unsaved. Since the presence of the Holy Spirit is the sign and seal of salvation (2 Cor. 1:22), that would mean we can be saved now, and would have no need for any intercessor between us and Christ, who is the intercessor between us and God the Father.

bretts said...

mark: "I would like the opportunity to ask their pope himself if The Holy Spirit would come to live in the unsaved."

I won't claim to speak for the pope, but I think according to his church's doctrine he would say that the Holy Spirit comes to live in born again Christians.

mark: "no need for any intercessor between us and Christ"

So you don't believe that born again Christians (brothers and sisters in Christ) can intercede for one another?
"praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints" - Ephesians 6:18

bretts said...

donsands: “They still welcome her, and are tremendous servants, and they truly care for the elderly with great affection”

winslowlady: “They will say they believe in Jesus, believe He died on the cross, etc.”
“I witnessed to the nuns in the convent and to a few of the priests in the monestary. My stay was ONLY for that year”. - So they ONLY allowed a full year to proselytize and get your message out.

Evidence that catholics are “twice the sons of hell” ???

SJ Camp said...

Mary is not the key to witnessing to Catholics; Jesus Christ is. It's not that the Romanists include Mary as co-redemptrix and co-mediatrix that is THE issue; but that they fail to ultimately have a right view of the Lord Jesus Christ, justification by faith alone, and His once for all imputed righteousness in salvation.

So I would encourage anyone here who is proclaiming the gospel to a Romanist to stay focused on the gospel - for it alone is the power of God unto salvation.


Rabbit trails (no matter how relevant they may seem) do no foster more effective evangelism.

Grace and peace,
2 Cor. 4:5

Joel said...

How much honor is too much to offer Mary? At what point do you think that honor becomes mariolatry?

SJ Camp said...

How much honor is too much to offer Mary? At what point do you think that honor becomes mariolatry?

Any honor that is not biblical; and any honor that eclipses the glory and person of our Lord Jesus Christ - in the smallest degree - in salvation, sanctification and glorification.

Hope this helps.

Joel said...

My mother is now in a superb nursing home, which is overseen by Polish sisters of the Immaculate heart of Mary.

Don, let me ask you: Honestly and objectively, if you didn't know that these women were Romanist nuns, would you say they were devoted to Jesus? If all you had to go by were their work and their attitudes, would you say they loved the Lord?

donsands said...

I don't know that they are devoted to Jesus.
I know they are kind, and have the #1 nursing home in the state of Maryland, that's Mary-land BTW.

Campi is spot on when he says, we need to show that the Gospel of grace is where salvation is found.
Catholicism is a works salvation. Genuine Protestantism is a faith by grace salvation.
But I at the same time have discussed everything from Mary, to politics with the nuns at St. Joseph's.
I'm to be unashamed of Christ, and the Gospel, and I'm to love people and be honest.
I fail miserably at times. But God at other times empowers me with His Spirit to speak His truth, and to love others as Christ loves them.

Have a great Lord's day.

de Brantigny........................ said...

have read this article and the comments. You really dont know anything but what you have been taught by misguided pastors, who have translated scripture into what they want to believe. It would be interesting if you vistors spoke to a priest or visited a Catholic Church to hear a mass.

Incidently, the Catholic Church in the latin rite is only one of about 14 rites in the Church.