Thursday, August 23, 2007

...the confusing conversation of an irrelevent faith

If this video doesn't convince you of the Emergent church's lack of sound doctrine and biblical direction---nothing will.

To relate to my ECM "friends" who frequent this blog, I offer this illustration: biblical Christianity is like listening to the best of Eric Clapton; the Emergent Church is like listening to the Partridge Family. One is authentic; the other just a market driven, dumbed-down, syncretistic, ecumenical, homogenized synthetic. Give me genuine biblical Christianity every time and quit treating my Lord, His gospel, and His Word as your cultural little play thing.

Sola fide,
2 Cor. 4:5-7


Sophia's Portal said...

Can we not attack each other? There are too many attacks from the world without Christians going after other members of the Body of Christ. I know you mean well, but why are you threatened by the emerging church? Remember, no one person speaks for emergent (just as no one speaks for evangelicals, fundamentalists, etc.) It is therefore unfair and inaccurate to make blanket statements about something as diverse and organic as the EC scene. Confusing conversation? I don't think so. Peace.

gigantor1231 said...

Oh Sophia

This morning I listened to Brian McLaren, Tony Jones and Rob Bell, the one best word to describe them is confusion! Ambiguity seems to be the mantra of the emergent church because all claim to no nothing but that wich is their own opinion and they do not even know if that is right. In a nut shell "Humanism" in a different format!
If Jim Jones were alive today and true Christians knew what he was truly about we would have fervently confronted him. We know what the emergent church is up to and we find it nescessary to expose it's lies spewed by it's leaders and proponents.
I would pray that God would have mercy on you and enlighten your confused mind to the truth, in the revelation and acceptance of that through Christ you will have true peace!

Acts 4:11,12

This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

Contrary to popular belief in the emergent church and among many other believers, Jesus did not come to bring peace to the world. He came to bring a sword, read Mt. 10:34. That sword is the word of God and the Gospel of Christ.
So, who is right? The Word or the emergents?

Bill and Merrilea said...

Sophia, it's not a matter of being threatened nor is it attacking....

To honestly hold true what this video says pains me.

2 Corinthians 11:28-29 Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches. Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?

They've thrown the baby out with the bath water. Sophia, it's not a matter of attacking. It's discernment. It's a matter of critically thinking through what is occurring to folks who profess the name of Christ. When they move away from the Word to some dynamic image of Jesus in the world today...When people leave the black and white truth of God's Word this happens...a twisting of truth and perversion of what church is all about.

Yes, there are doctrinal differences in the Body of Christ and there will be till He returns. But to affirm no doctrinal conformity makes it what, exactly? Doctrine is not some 'stagnant' representation of tradition.

It's simply repeating scripture:

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

To throw out 'doctrine' for people's opinions - due to a distorted view of priesthood of the believer as viewed in this video will dilute church to be nothing more than a support group, nothing else. It's not a matter of 'being threatened' by EC, but critically observing what is happening and allowing God's Word to teach, correct, rebuke...

- as Paul told Timothy:

1 Timothy 3:15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Ah, if the church leaves behind doctrine of the Apostles...that which Christ Himself taught them, what 'truth' do they have? ...nothing but the opinions of their members, and that's not truth. That's making man the center, not God.
May the ECM be corrected. They've got some good points about relationships and being real with one another and the impact that can be made for Christ in community by living as Salt and Light versus being constricted by our traditions...but lets not do it at the expense of Truth. Relevance and pragmatism are not the standard - God's Word is.

SJ Camp said...

Sophia's Portal
I appreciate your sharing your words here with me. Please notice that I didn't say "emerging" but EMERGENT. Those two names represent two totally different concepts of ministry and theological persuasion.

EMERGENT is liberal, generally unorthodox, and specious in most basic theological claims. Emerging is generally orthodox, conservative and striving to be biblical. BUT, the word is too closely related to EMERGENT and is forever stigmatized--guilt by association.

I don't consider Doug Pagitt as representing biblical orthodox Christianity on most essentials of the faith... do you?

Read Titus 1:9 - it is the double edged sword of biblical ministry.

Thank you again for your comment. Keep 'em coming.


SJ Camp said...

In the spirit for further clarity, I have added a few more adjectives define EMERGENT faith.


cyd said...

So, Solomon's porch - "we do this because this is who we are" and
from their website -- we "live the dreams of God".

The sign on the front says it all:

A Holistic,(Hi Oprah!)
Missional,(aahh, Purpose.)
Christian (they meant Artistic)
Community (House Party!!)

Let's see: They've created their own church structure, nixed having a statement of faith or any "set-in- stone theological writing that everyone has to adhere to," focused solely on the social causes they each individually believe Jesus would be most indignant about, and face each other with the common thought that "everyone has the right to speak for God".

There is nothing remotely Christian about this "church".

BUT --
Heads up believers; this garbage is seeping in through the back doors of many of our own churches... especially through the youth programs. Be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. (Mt.10:16)

Oh, Come Lord Jesus!

SJ Camp said...

Wow! Well done... good analysis.

The removal and purposed omission of a statement of faith or doctrinal statement was a crucial step that I believe has led to their spiritual vacancy.

I do wonder though if they use "The Message" as their "pew" bible? I don't think they have pews; but whatever they do have, I wonder if "The Message" is in them?

Church is fluid - ECM; Scripture is fluid - The Message; seems to fit.

Eph. 4:11-16

Jim from said...

"Then, besides, there is and always has been a great desire for novelty. We are all the subjects of it: we all like something fresh. But there are some who are sick of the changeable disease; you see them zealots for a creed to-day, but on a sudden you find them deeply immersed in the opposite teaching. Ah, now they have found out something very wonderful: just as the idiot who saw the rainbow, and believed that there was a jewel at the foot of it, ran for miles to seize a glittering sapphire and grasped a piece of glass bottle; so do they for ever pursue and never attain. We have a few of these gentlemen in most of our churches, but you will find them nowhere long. Another inventor starts a new system, and away they go, pining always to be the first disciples of each new prophet. May God save us from the Athenian spirit, which for ever hungers for something new."

--Vol. 24: Spurgeon's Sermons:

terriergal said...

Sophia, why are you threatened by people critiquing the 'beliefs' of the emerging church? Why are you being so judgemental? How do you know how many emergents such and such has interviewed so that you can say his view is a 'blanket statement.'

cyd said...

"Church is fluid - ECM; Scripture is fluid - The Message; seems to fit."


Thanks for this post - I didn't realize that the pastor here was one of the key Emergent guys -- Doug Paigitt!

I appreciate the fact that you don't post haphazardly on your blog, Steve. Your presentations are consistently well studied and I learn so much here at COT.
Thank you for always doing your homework! :)


Only Look said...

Deeply troubling and clearly Satanic in its seemingly good sympathies. Thanks for keeping us awake Steve, from this sweet delusional intoxicating aroma that seems right, but bitterly ends in eternal death.

Anonymous said...

The lady in the video who brought up "What would Jesus do?" were he incarnated in this generation, and claiming he'd be confronting racism, the environment, working for globalization and feeding the masses, "and, you know, these sorts of things," is at least being consistent, because I was recently distraught to learn that Charles Sheldon's book, In His Steps, from which WWJD comes, was the "spiritual grandfather" of the social gospel.

Yes Emergent is consistently liberal, but consistency is such cases is not a biblically praiseworthy virtue. The thrust in the Emergent movement, like so many other movements which retain association with Evangelicalism (e.g., Purpose-Drivenism, etc.), is to put "deeds" before "creeds" (to borrow language from Rick Warren himself). This is not Christianity. Even though it's sometimes difficult to keep the entire church consistently on task in basing our deeds on our creeds (indeed, we often fail), this is no excuse to throw creeds to the wind and focus on deeds, although this probably requires less attention to detail.

Mark said...

The Lord said in Genesis 6:5,"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

I wrote today on this video and did not want to be very wordy in your comment page. I have included a link to the page. My hope is that someone may be turned back or to true faith in the living God of Scripture, not the god of pride and deception.

Ted said...

Thank God for the rich truth He choose to give you, and the discipline to Study His Word, and the ability to Know Him, it's not carnal, it's unnatural. And pray for poor, ignorant people like these in the sad video, only God can open their eyes.

Jim from said...

Regarding that same (WWJD) lady that John D is talking about. It could be argued that some of those things were 'needs' back in Jesus' time, but He didn't revolve his ministry around them. Jesus had the power to heal everyone, and we read of him sovereignly healing just one from the bunch, on at least one occasion. Christians should do good works certainly, but someone once said it (I forgot who) that so many in the Emerging Church Movement are more interested in seeing people 'helped' rather than seeing them 'saved'. I'm not suggesting an "either/or" but there is a priority that ought to be obvious.

Jenney said...

Well, you lost me at the Eric Clapton-Partridge Family thing. I like the Partridge Family! "We're gonna make you happy!!!" I mean, all Eric Clapton has ever done is make me cry about his little boy.

Okay, but the video: that sort of "we can't know the truth" philosophy means there really is no point in listening to one another at all, right? Why bother if we won't know who is right? Why pool our ignorance? If we can't know, then let's give up now and just live for self!

Why care about racism if there is no Absolute Truth that racism is evil? Maybe in my personal interpretation of reality, racism is fine. If you can't trust the Bible as the compass, then what tells you that there is such a thing as evil out there at all, racial or otherwise?

They do have one thing in common with the Partridges, though: they're all about "I Think I Love You"!

B said...

I couldn't even finish watching the video.

Sad, sad, sad. To take the glorious gospel of our Savior and turn it into feel good pablum.