Saturday, December 02, 2006

Broke "Saddleback" Mountain
...when a pastor tries to be a politician

Rick Warren seems like a compassionate man; but one who is a late-comer to this issue of AIDS. He said on an interview with FOXNEWS this past week that the first priority was to "break the silence of the church on AIDS." I beg your pardon Mr. Warren, but there have been many churches over for the past 20+ years without fanfare, PR and national media attention have faithfully served the Lord and those that are HIV positive in very sacrificial and profound ways. It is good that Rick and Saddleback have finally broken the silence and are getting involved on this issue.

But in all honesty, one must logically ask why now? I mean, where has he been all those years when people were dying with AIDS? I can only think in part that this is now due because of his PDL fame and subsequent wealth derived thereof, that he has to have somewhere to use and justify the tens of millions of dollars he has made from "being in the ministry." Thus... his fascination with social causes.

Mr. Warren is being promoted, positioned and perceived, mostly by his own public relations machine, as a global leader in fighting HIV infection. However, rather than using his "Q" to drive him deeper into pastoral ministry (i.e. prayer, biblical exposition, the discipleship of God's people, and the proclamation of the gospel of sola fide) he has turned to social causes: global warming, getting rid of poverty, bringing his P.E.A.C.E. plan to Syria, and now of course... AIDS.

The Latest Promoter of ECB - Evangelical Co-Belligerenece
A familiar proverb says, "a man is known by the friends he keeps..." And while Rick's passion for hurting people is commendable, it's the strange bedfellows he "partners" with that is disturbing. This again seems like a very superficial thing to him. The only plumbline he uses to determine whom he aligns himself with is uninimity on a cause--not on Christ, not on biblical truth, not on moral principle, but solely on a cause. And remember, this is a pastor. In this case the issue is AIDS.

Rick himself has clearly communicated that he will join with anyone to fight AIDS. Really? Let's test that axiom: would he partner with Planned Parenthood for example, or NAMBLA, Larry Flint of Hustler Magazine, or the Columbia drug-lords perhaps (after all they are well financed and globally networked) to help fight global HIV infection? Of course not. The principle taken to its logical conclusion doesn't pan out though. IOW, this is just another example of "cultural sentimentalism" run-a-muck. It is what I have coined as: ECB - Evangelical Co-Belligerence. Here is Rick on Hannity and Colmes a few days ago describing his new found co-belligerence.

The cross of the social gospel is pleasant, inclusive, ecumenical, politically correct, and inoffensive to the unregenerate; contrary to the cross of Christ.

His Definition of C.H.U.R.C.H. 'Purposely' Leaves out Christ
Look at how Rick wants to redefine what the church should be in response to this health crisis:

Unique from every other conference on AIDS, attendees of the Global Summit on AIDS & the Church will explore six ways any church, regardless of size, can minister to people living with HIV/AIDS using the acrostic C.H.U.R.C.H.: Care for and support the sick; Handle testing and counseling; Unleash volunteers; Remove the stigma; Champion healthy behavior; and Help with nutrition and medications.
I have an alternative meaning on how the church can effectively minister to those who have AIDS:
C - Christ. He alone is head of the church and is to be reverenced and worshipped as the only true Lord of all (Col. 1:18)
H - Holiness. The lifestyle of true faith; the fruit of genuine salvation (2 Cor. 5:17)
U - Unity. The body of Christ living out the one-anothers that effect all of life in every area of faith and community (Acts 2:42ff)
R - Regeneration. Proclaiming the gospel -evangelism; calling all men everywhere to repent of their sins and follow Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of their lives to escape the wrath to come (Titus 3:4-7)
C - Care and Compassion. Love your neighbor as yourself. Serve through "hands on" practical means (Matt. 22:39)
H - Hope. Though there is no cure for H-I-V, but there is for S-I-N in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Dying people need hope and there is no greater hope than what is found in Jesus (1 John 2:28-3:3)
Care for peoples daily needs? - absolutely, yes. But not at the expense of the eternal being compromised, ignored, politicized, or blurred.

Rodney King Theology--With a Twist
Mr. Warren's bleeding heart, politically correct, postmodern, moral pluralistic, neo-evangelical rhetoric adopted form the Rodney School of Theology - "can't we all just get along" [and all work together] - plays well with people like Bono, Gates, Obama, Dybul. But even under surface scrutiny, it lacks the biblical teeth, footing, theology, and courage to be taken anymore seriously than what it is: just another liberal social gospel in different rags.

Divorce biblical truth from love, and you get empty-headed sentimentality. Divorce love from biblical truth, and you get cold hearted-orthodoxy. Marry biblical truth and love, and you get real ministry. Rick has conveniently cut biblical truth out of the equation and has embraced anyone (preferrably with a name that can draw a crowd) who shares his same passion for the same issue. For a politician this is understandable and condoned; for a pastor, this is preposterous and compromise.

Welcome, to Broke "Saddleback" Mountain:

Below you will find an excellent running report from Joseph Farah and WorldNet Daily about Rick Warren, and his trip to Syria, his conference on AIDS, and his partnership with PBA advocate Barack Obama that will greatly inform you. I have also included a link to the transcript of Barack's speech he made yesterday at Rick's conference.

Transcript of Barack Obama's speech.
Friday, December 1, 2006 - Here's a riveting snippet of Barack's speech: "I took my own trip to Africa a few months ago. As I’m sure Rick and Kay would agree, it’s an experience that stays with you for quite some time."

The purpose-driven lie
Thursday, November 16, 2006 by Joseph Farah -- For a long time I've held off criticizing mega-church leader Rick Warren, author of the best-selling "The Purpose Driven Life," even though I have been sorely tempted. When he joined up with now-disgraced National Association of Evangelica ...

Why is Obama's evil in Rick Warren's pulpit?
Friday, November 17, 2006 by Kevin McCullough Rick Warren, the best selling author of "The Purpose Driven Life" and senior teaching pastor at Saddleback Church in California, has invited Sen. Barack Obama to speak to the congregation of the faithful on Dec. 1, 2006. In doing so, he has joined himself with one of the smoothest politicians of our times, and also one whose wickedness in worldview contradicts nearly every tenet of the Christian faith that Warren professes.

Megapastor Rick Warren's Damascus Road experience
Monday, November 20, 2006 by Joseph Farah -- WASHINGTON – Rick Warren, the superstar mega-church pastor and bestselling author of ''The Purpose Driven Life,'' had a Damascus Road experience last week – and like Saul of Tarsus, one of the after-effects appears to be blindness. Warren ...

Rick Warren disciples: Where are you?
Tuesday, November 21, 2006 by Joseph Farah -- Millions and millions of people have purchased his books. His California church attracts thousands every Sunday. He seems to be the go-to guy whenever the establishment, ultra-secular press wants to quote an evangelical leader they l ...

Calling Rick Warren!
Wednesday, November 22, 2006 by Joseph Farah -- Rick Warren just toured Syria last week where he announced that terrorist haven, that police state, that bastion of hate, anti-Christian persecution and anti-Semitism is really not so bad. I ...

Rick Warren on Syria: 'A moderate country'
Sunday, November 26, 2006 by Joseph Farah -- I am much obliged to Bruce Delay, a talk-show host at KFAQ 1170 in Tulsa, Oklahoma, for downloading the audio version of Rick Warren's YouTube video, recorded while in Syria. Now, keep in ...

Warren defender: Change the subject
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 by Joseph Farah -- New Age leader Marianne Williamson has come to the aid of "The Purpose-Driven Life" author Rick Warren, under fire from me for statements he made during his recent visit to Syria.

Rick Warren says he's sorry
Wednesday, November 29, 2006 by Joseph Farah -- I received the following apology from Rick Warren Sunday night: It is evident from your columns and e-mails to others that I hurt, angered and offended you personally by what I said in a second e-mail to you. I am truly sorry ...

Saddleback says church can't handle AIDS crisis alone. Justifies summit conference featuring pro-abortion senator
Thursday, November 30, 2006 WND News -- Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, disagrees with Sen. Barack Obama's strong support for abortion, and has told him so in a public meeting, but still will allow him to address an AIDS conference at the church because getting different parts of society working together on the problem is so important, the church said in a statement.

Rick Warren shows Syria video in church. Pastor says clip was pulled from 12 hours of tapes after denying shooting on trip
Friday, December 1, 2006 WND News -- Saddleback Church Pastor Rick Warren showed a brief video clip of his meeting with Syrian President Bashar Assad to his mega-congregation after telling WND no recording was done on his controversial trip to the terrorist-sponsoring nation. Some members of Saddleback Church say they are distressed by this as well as Warren's comments that Syria is a "moderate" country.


candyinsierras said...

Fantastic graphics!

That speech by Obama is downright scary. Heartfelt words that sway the audience, smooth and definitely leaning towards a socialistic gospel. He is infiltrating the Church in America, sharing his "faith" just to set his goal for the presidency.

I personally think Rick Warren is one scary guy. Perhaps his latest moves will wake up a few more people to his duplicitous ways.

I posted recently about him as well.

donsands said...

The thing that bothers me about Mr. Warren is that he doen't bring forth the Scriptures with authority.

That's what we see in the Bible. The people were astonished as the Lord taught "as One having authority".
Also Paul says, "For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord has given us for edification". 2 Cor 10:8

Also: "But he that boasts, let him boast in the Lord.
For not he that commends himself is approved, but whom the Lord commends." 2 Cor. 10:17-18

I pray that Rick would be granted a blessing from the Lord, which would be an insatiable burning desire to teach and preach the whole Bible. I pray God would give him ahunger to read, study, and meditate upon the Holy Scriptures. And that Rick would see his neglect, and repent.

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, ... Preach the Word ..." 2 Tim 3:16-4:5

Tim Wirth said...

Hi Campi: First of all I hope you and your kids have a great Christmas and a Happy New Year. Thanks for the article and exposing this to the light of scripture. I think this may go even deeper than we think though. Check this out-
Rick Warrens secret meeting

Excerpt from an email sent out weeks ago via his pastors.Com network.
"I’m writing to see if you could come to Saddleback for three days at the end of November. Two of those days will be the Global Summit on AIDS and the Church (Nov. 30-Dec.1), but the first day will be a private Conversation about Tomorrow with Senior Pastors (Nov. 29). This will be a by-invitation-only, off-the-record, not-open-to-the-public full day of conversation with senior pastors. I’d like for you to join us.
Conversation about Tomorrow for Senior Pastors will be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for senior pastors across America to think deeply together about the direction of our ministries, about personal renewal, church renewal, and cultural renewal in the 21st century. We’ll consider how to network more effectively, and I’ll share some things I’ve been quietly working on. In my heart, I know this day with senior pastors will be history making, a beginning point of the 21st century. There’s no cost to attend the Conversation About Tomorrow for Senior Pastors, but you’ll need an invitation ticket. If you can attend, I will send you some reading material in advance that I want you to be thinking about."
end of quote-
I have to ask when did Jesus do anything in secret?
Rather in scripture we read.

John 18:20
"Jesus answered him, "I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where the Jews always meet, and in secret I have said nothing.

Again thanks for bringing this all to air out.
And hey if your driving up 75 to Toledo stop by for a coffee sometime. Donna and I live in Piqua, Ohio now. Would love to see you play sometime as well.
Peace and Blessings
Your brother in the Lord

Tim Wirth
Eph 5:11-14

cyd said...

Dear Steve:

Excellent article. Thank you for putting all these links up in one place. The facts about RW are loud and clear, and probably just the tip of a much larger agenda.

Apparently Rick is scheduled to speak soon in St. Louis at Urbana IVCF, the largest youth missions convention in the world.
Many are praying that the Lord will prevent him from this platform.

Believers need not fear Rick Warren. Our LORD God reigns. May He be glorified, and may His Real Church please stand up and be sifted from the pragmatic, co-belligerent, post-modern chaff!

Thanks again Steve.

cyd said...


Absolutely love the pics!!

SJ Camp said...

Here is a link to a "Hannity and Colmes" program from last week when they interviewed Rick Warren about having Barack Obama included in his conference and his philosophy on social issues.

Rick completely affirms what I thought he did, a co-belligerence philosophy in addressing social or cultural issues. To those who sent me off forum emails disagreeing with me, it affirms that I was right. Though that is not the issue here--it is sadly affirming.

Rick Warren Interview on Hannity and Colmes

CounterCultureJoel said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
SJ Camp said...

My email address is available to all as is posted on the front of this blog. It says, "A1M mail." That means you can actually email me and I will respond to you.

The title of this post is not to portray Mr. Warren in a "homosexual light" as you have so rudely suggested. It is satire to mean that he has invited some strange bed-fellows to partner with in dealing with the issue of AIDS. I think most people, with the exception of yourself, understood this to be the case.

What I don't understand, is in your comment you devote one small paragraph with no seeming outrage as to what Mr. Warren has actually asserted at his conference. But then the rest to venting about the title of this post. This, you have to admit, is a bit perplexing.

Did you actually read this article and all the links from WND about Warren? You need to do that--it will give you context and helpful information so that you can make logical, informed, biblical, lucid comments here to inspire further dialogue.

Lastly, the uniqueness of this blog is that I don't attract followers who you so insultingly characterized as "drinking the kool-aid." On the contrary, they are thinking men and women who are faithful Bereans, measuring the issues of the day, and my writings as well, according to standard of God's Word--which is a biblical worldview. I am blessed that they would hold me accountable to what I pen daily and grace this blog with their thoughts and readership.

Grace and peace,
2 Cor. 4:5-7

littlegal_66 said...

candy and cyd: Thanks for the encouragement. (And thanks, Campi, for the outlet).

sjcamp: Thank you for the link to the video clip.....still can't believe he actually referred to "co-belligerence" in the interview.

ccjoel: Personally, I prefer "Hawaiian Punch," thank you very much. :-)
BTW, just for clarification, in your reference to "title of your blog," are you alluding to Steve's blog title, "CampOnThis," or are you alluding to the title of this particular post ("Broke 'Saddleback' Mountain?")

SJ Camp said...

You've hit on the key issue for me with Mr. Warren - the failure to speak biblically to the cultural issues. That's it.

He's bought into a neo-evangelical worldview. Read this article in its entirety--from the "news with views organization. It reveals much.

Thank you,

Bhedr said...

And even if you don't agree with the pictures you should still look past that and be thankful that Steve is taking courage and meeting this deadly movement head on and that there is one among very few that are. Which is what I do. I may not have always agreed with Steve in everything but right now he has a prophets voice and oh how I wish we would wake up to this and stop coddling ourselves with warm feelings that are trying to feed the hungry while encouraging homosexualty and infanticide at the same time. Its beginning to look more and more like the numbers of people that are going to bust Hell wide open in the evangelical church may just dwarf what we think now.Where are our consciences? How can this horror be justified? Look past the pictures and think about your conscience man! We are sailing away into no mans land and trying to say we are serving God at the same time.

May the Lord be with you Steve as you take courage in contending with the spirit of the Anti-Christ and will probably face hardships because of it. I lift up your arms in this area. I wish there were more voices willing to contend with this horror that dresses itself in glowing lights.

Bhedr said...

BTW Steve. I now concede that you were right concerning the End Of The Spear. Forgive me for having opposed you in the past over this. We need to get our emotions out of the way and wake up. May God continue to grant you wisdom. The days are growing short.

All of these Robert Schuler based warm feelings are false. Don't trust them!!

SJ Camp said...

Thank you brother for your kind and supportive words. This co-belligerent movement among evangelicals is going to take its toll these next two years. It is why I have been writing on it for as many months.

We must come to terms that the social gospel is no gospel at all.

Should we help people with AIDS? Absolutely. Should be meet the needs of the poor? Most definitely. Should we stand against sex-tafficking, abortion, even illiteracy, corruption in government, same sex marriage, etc.? Yes.

The issue is how.

The ECB movement (Evangelical Co-Belligerence) say we should join hands with anyone; and the only criteria is empathy of a common cause. The solution for them is politically unity for moral malady.

I believe the Scriptures teach differently. Join hands with other believers on the merits of Jesus Christ and the essentials of His Word, going into all the world, loving our neighbor, proclaiming the gospel and preaching His Word, calling all men to repentance; AND doing the hands on mercy ministry compassionate service to others (Acts 2:42-48).

IOW, invite Barack Obama to a conference, not to speak, but to hear how to address any issue from a biblical worldview and to be exposed to the gospel of Jesus Christ. BUT, those with whom we partner with and create intimate alliances with on any issue, must confess Jesus Christ as the Lord and Savior of their lives (2 Cor. 6:14-7:1; 2 Tim. 2:22; Titus 3:1-8).

It was wrong for Rick to have Obama be a featured speaker at this conference. It was wrong for Rick to have gay activists speak at this conference. It was wrong for him to give a platform to those who condone PBA and live abortions, advocate gay marriage and homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle, etc. There can be no equivocation at this crucial point.

The unguent for the maladies of this generation is not political, social, cultural unity based on a sentimental approach to crisis issues; it is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Doe we really believe that beloved? If so, then let us go to all of those dear people with the life-giving truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ--but let us not give them a stage, a mic and a platform. That is called selling out!

"Jesus is the answer for the world today..." Amen?

2 Cor. 4:5-7

donsands said...

"And when He comes, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement". John 16:8

When the Holy Spirit does this trough the Church, and especially the leadres/shepherds of the Church, the world will hate us.(And there will be those who are convicted, and cry out for mercy as well).

If this isn't happening, and the world is loving us, then we better repent, and ask the Lord to fill us with His Spirit and power.

Thanks for being a strong brother in Christ.

Bhedr said...

Amen Steve and Semper Fidelis. I am glad you are a trumpet blasting. I pray men will start to listen and wake up.

The SBC church that I just came out of supports a missionary with KERUS. I don't know a whole lot about that group but I was so troubled when only a couple of months ago this missionary lady stood up and waged her finger in our faces and said she had just got back from "Saddleback" church where Rick and his wife had for months had pillow talk about this. He said he has been all wrong to be out writing these books and that now he finally "gets" it. These were her words. I am also starting to notice a common message spilling out of that Church and troublingly similar to what Obama was preaching in lets not Judge these sinners and that they need grace and mercy...we needed it, why can't they have it too message. It is a means of making you feel guilty if you don't join their cause by making you feel like you don't believe the gospel and is is as you say...a social gospel. This along with the fact that both my wife and I sort of woke up for the last time on this stuff when we visited Dan Lucarini and went to his conferance(take note that I don't embrace everything he teaches as I appreciate some of your music and some of Keiths old stuff still but I am much more conservative about music than I was... though I do agree with much of his stuff...anyway thats not quite as essential..but he is a strong voice out there as well that is waking us up to this)

Anyway he even revealed an article from a National Newspaper with the headlines speaking on Rick Warren, "What Ever Happened To The Wrath Of God?".

Even some of the lost are becoming bewildered about this and tragically the world is now calling the church to repentance. Some of them see right through it and we are all being desensitised and dumbed down in so many varying ways. We must needs wake up before it is too late. This should leave a hole in all of our hearts and we should weep. It is tragic. Instead of talking at our pillows we should be weeping on them. Instead of wagging fingers in our faces(and I understand this missionary woman had been in tragic circumstances in Africa) and saying "We don't need another sermon!" we need to be listening to another sermon before we go and let our lights shine to help men so that they see God and glorify Him ALONE and do it in the will of God and in truth.

I was so troubled after that night. She even said that she sometimes finds herself getting angry with God over this. RED FLAGS!! That is what I hear atheists say a lot who are over there as well saying, "There is no God and he is not going to help so we need to."

It is point blank bitterness at God to a great degree I believe and we are being deceived by this spirit.

Anyway. The Church I was in was supposed to be one of the most conservative in North Carolina and they were even a runner up for Tennessee's CH Spurgeon award last year. Spurgeon would be grieved to be named among such horror.

I guess this is one of the things that woke me up. In fact Dan told me that Rick Warren now has about 18 differant services. Is that for real?

Anyway I am sorry this is so long. I will try to be shorter in the future...but I am so troubled about this right now. I had to leave the SBC. I could not get peace with God until I did and it has been like a sword in my household right now. Please pray for us. O woe to the inhabitants of the earth. Woe! Woe! For we have called evil righteousness and righteousness evil and the man of God is being betrayed who would stand in the old guards post and be a watchman. Woe to us!

And as Whitefield often preached at the top of his lungs as all the respectable churches of his day shut him out and he had to:

"Oh my hearers! The Wrath of God! The Wrath of God!"

May this message of God's justice cause us to repent and flee to the cross to receive His love. Any time we take that formula out of the equation we don't offer Gods true divine love.

Bhedr said...

18 differant fad driven types is what I heard. Is that true?

Joel Tetreau said...


Thanks for your work. I appreciate your willingness to state the case for truth here with the manner in which you do it. The deal is forensic - imputed justification always takes a beating in these ecumenical arrangements. The message of alien righteousness most always gets lost in the message of social righteousness.

Straight Ahead Steve!


Jeff said...

I just want to know how many people who sit here and bash Rick Warren have acutally read anything by him or visited his church to see if what Steve is saying is true. It seems there are many E-Spiritual people on here.

Lots-o-Muzik said...

Jeff, your response to ALL the OVERWHELMING evidence AGAINST Rick Warren and his ilk is equivalent to the age-old response, namely, "Oh yeah?!?" There's a tidalwave of evidence supporting ALL the charges against Mr. Warren and you stand there with an umbrella. Tidalwave vs. Umbrella.......Who wins? The tidalwave is TRUTH and the umbrella is EVERYTHING ELSE. The TRUTH "outnumbers" EVERYTHING ELSE everytime. My heartfelt advice to you is, "Close the umbrella and body surf on the tidalwave of TRUTH. It's incredibly scary and wonderful at the same time!!!"