Tuesday, September 20, 2005

"Eggs" Benedict Serves Up Indulgences to Youth
still heretical after all these years


I've heard that Wittenberg Beer might have had some influence in Benedict's life as a youth growing up in Germany. I think the name of the beer was "Papal-Bull-Weiser." You know the slogan: when you've said "pay Papal-Bull-Weiser, you've freed them all." However, I have it on very good authority that the Pope's most favorite pop song that he likes to sing around the Vatican late at night when he thinks that all the other little "Romie Homies" are quietly asleep is: "B-B-B-Bennedicty and the Tetz."


Pope Benedict XVI arrived in Germany on August the 18th last month to address more than 400 000 young people at the 20th World Youth Day meeting. This marked his first visit to the country of his birth since he was crowned pontiff back in April of this year. What also makes this trip "out of the ordinary", is that he granted two special indulgences for the young people attending the World Youth Day (held in Cologne, Germany August 16-21). As you might be aware, the practice of indulgences dates back to the time of the Reformation (1517). “Eggs” Benedict (my nickname for Romanism's conservative antichrist figure) is showing his true papal colors these days by reviving authority in the apocryphal teachings of Tridentine doctrines (such as the selling of indulgences - but in this unusual case the indulgences weren't sold, but he makes them earn them and then he grants them) which he unashamedly represents as infallible truth; but in reality are nothing but damnable lies. The “yoke” – you might say– is on him.

Who is John Tetzel?
John Tetzel, was Pope Leo X emissary; a braggart hired as Rome’s chief fundraiser by promising a “get out of jail free card” for the price of a financial offering to the Pope. He was ordered to sell the idea that buying indulgences would release sinners from divine punishment. "Indulgences" were printed permits or coupons listing the monetary value of a personal confession of sin. Bishop Albrecht of Mainz had authorized the sale of indulgences in order to pay Rome for making him an archbishop. The monies raised were used to assist in building St. Peter’s basilica in Rome. This became known as the selling of indulgences. Tetzel was the great mouthpiece, commissioner, and preacher of indulgences in Germany. His preaching raised enormous amounts of money which were sent to Rome. He had a very clever saying that he was infamous for when motivating people with the false promise of avoiding purgatorial punishment, playing with fear on the sentiments of many that by giving to him and Rome their friends and loved ones would be immediately released from torment to heaven's glory. He would "sing": "As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs."

Luther, who was outraged by this abhorrent practice issued a public call for theological debate on the sale of indulgences by posting his ninety-five theses on the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg on the eve of All Saint’s Day, October 31, 1517. He strategically trumped, by one day, Tetzel's influence over the people by challenging his unbiblical view of indulgences in a public forum. Printers distributed copies without Luther’s knowledge and permission. Within a few weeks, Martin Luther was known everywhere as the "voice of renewal." He began to see clearly that the church of his time stressed human merit—works righteousness, rather than trust in God alone for the salvation of men’s souls. It is no wonder that Luther and the other reformers gospel cry became: grace alone-sola gratia; through faith alone-sola fide; on the Word alone-sola Scriptura; because of Christ alone-solus Christus; to the glory of God alone-Soli Deo Gloria.

"Monking" Around
"This indulgence was highly respected. When the commissioner was welcomed to town, the Papal Bull (a written command or edict from the Pope) was carried on velvet or gold cloth. All the priests, monks, councilmen, teachers, pupils, men, women, maids, and children went to meet him singing in solemn procession with flags and candles. The bells tolled and when he entered the church the organ played. A red Cross was put up in the middle of the church to which the Pope's banner was affixed. In short: even God himself could not have been welcomed and received more beautifully.” [Source: Friedrich Myconius, Historia reformation is, p. 14.]

Turnabout is Fair Play
“After Tetzel had received a substantial amount of money at Leipzig, a nobleman asked him if it were possible to receive a letter of indulgence for a future sin. Tetzel quickly answered in the affirmative, insisting, however, that the payment had to made at once. This the nobleman did, receiving thereupon letter and seal from Tetzel. When Tetzel left Leipzig the nobleman attacked him along the way, gave him a thorough beating, and sent him back empty-handed to Leipzig with the comment that this was the future sin which he had in mind. Duke George at first was quite furious about this incident, but when he heard the whole story he let it go without punishing the nobleman.” [Source: Luthers Schriften, herausg. von Walch. XV, 446.]

Here’s the Issue in a Nutshell: History Repeats Itself
According to a Latin-language decree of the Apostolic Penitentiary dated August 2 and made public August 8, a plenary indulgence is available to the faithful who attend the sacred functions of World Youth Day and also "attentively and religiously" participate in its solemn conclusion on Sunday, August 21. The decree lists the additional conditions that must be fulfilled in order to gain this or any other plenary indulgence: sacramental Confession, reception of Holy Communion, prayer for the intention of the Holy Father, and a soul free from attachment to any sin.

A partial indulgence is available to all the other faithful,
wherever they may be during World Youth Day, if, with a contrite heart, they pray
fervently that Christian youth be strengthened in the profession of the Faith;

be confirmed in love and reverence toward their parents; and

form a firm resolution to follow "the holy norms of the Gospel and Mother
Church" in living out their present or future family life, or whatever
vocation they are called to by God.


This brief explanation below taken from Rome’s own "Primer on Indulgences" and will give you their justifying reason for this hellish practice.

Primer on Indulgences of the Roman Catholic Church.
“Those who claim that indulgences are no longer part of Church teaching have the admirable desire to distance themselves from abuses that occurred around the time of the Protestant Reformation. They also want to remove stumbling blocks that prevent non-Catholics from taking a positive view of the Church. As admirable as these motives are, the claim that indulgences are not part of Church teaching today is false.

This is proved by the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which states, "An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishment due for their sins." The Church does this not just to aid Christians, "but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity" (CCC 1478).

Indulgences are part of the Church’s infallible teaching. This means that no Catholic is at liberty to disbelieve in them. The Council of Trent stated that it "condemns with anathema those who say that indulgences are useless or that the Church does not have the power to grant them"(Trent, session 25, Decree on Indulgences). Trent’s anathema places indulgences in the realm of infallibly defined teaching.”

This is the sad reality of the current state of Romanism. Is there any doubt that this is a false church, led by a false shepherd, representing a false gospel, according to false doctrine. The Reformation did actually happen folks... but in light of the above, we need to still be "pounding on Wittenberg's Door."

Having more fun than a Reformed Baptist should be allowed to...
Stephanus Johan Campius
Galatians 1:6-8

221 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 221 of 221
Unchained Slave said...

Thess,
I think you are again obfuscating the 'heartfelt' point of the question.
1. People are in purgatory
2. The Pope, as you have argued (and are arguing with Tim) has the authority of 'binding and loosing'.

3. WHY doesn't the Pope in Christian Charity - loose the souls in Purgatory?

As for whether or not I believe in prayer...
My answer is - prayer to whom?

pilgrim said...

Unchained slave asks, as he pointed out in his first comment, the same question as Martin Luther--whose credentials in the RCC are far above many the RC's here have cited. When Luther asked that--he was still RC. In fact his 95 theses were asked from a very RC perspective. So the question is valid and has never been answered very well.

Also Tim you said-
"I think Pilgrim has hit it on the head. The RCC is playing word games and I as stated in a previous post. The issue is when you pin them down the church has given them another answer that will allow them to save face and still remain loyal to mother church."

This series of comments and the others here proves this statement in spades. It was already proven in my life.

pilgrim said...

#82 from Luther's theses-
To wit: -- "Why does not the pope empty purgatory, for the sake of holy love and of the dire need of the souls that are there, if he redeems an infinite number of souls for the sake of miserable money with which to build a Church? The former reasons would be most just; the latter is most trivial."

This fits your description--those in purgatory (if it existed--and Luther here is giving the benefit of the doubt) could still be freed by the Pope's decrees.

Basically Luther is saying--if the Pope can grant indulgences to pay for a church, why can he not do it for love. I keep hearing about GOd's wider mercy from the RC's here--should not the pope mirror this and grant all the indulgences there are to grant?

Keep in mind Luther here is not defending indulgences, but is giving one more reason why they are of no effect.

Tim said...

Pilgrim,

good points. Though Thess has responded, his response really doesn't deal with the elephant in the room in regards to purgatory. You bring up the issue of money. While I realize that some indulgences are acquired by other means, money was a huge issue. It seems to me that Catholicism would take all the money it has to get their brothers and sisters out of purgatory, and yet they do not.

Thess,

I for one am not saying you are a zombie. That is not my point when I speak of you being loyal to the RCC. I am simply saying, that you cannot go against church teaching, because it will place you under anathema, and as you guys have already said, that anathema would clearly apply to you, though I think if we look back in history, my argument still stands, no matter what some later document says, unless that document declares repentance, which I do not see forthcoming.

pilgrim said...

And to clarify things--I know the RCC doesn't sell indulgences as they did at that time, but the principle of indulgences remains the same-Luther's question is still valid.

Unchained Slave said...

Thess,
Please do not put words in my mouth OR tell me what I am thinking...

I asked a question based on Martin Luther's understanding of the Papacy's ability to grant indulgences, while adding the Catholic Canons to support 'his' question...
If you do not like my question or do not want to answer it fine...
Say so and be done... Do not for a minute presuppose you know either my character or my motives.
To quote you, "He can however declare indulgences by which the grace of God can be applied to their souls and help them get out sooner or immediately."

I ask again, why in Christian love would he not do that?

Period
- I have not assigned your motives. I have not judged your motives. I have not judged your 'heart'. I have not questioned your knowledge. I have not 'attacked' Catholicism in general here.

I asked one question, repeatedly - you answered (in the above quote) that the pope has the 'power' to do it.

But you have yet to explain in any way WHY he does't - you say it is not as simple as waving the 'papal wand', but in the following sentence you say 'he could' help them get out sooner or immediately...

AGAIN WHY DOESN'T HE?

Unchained Slave said...

Thess,
I’ll leave the question of WHY alone, since we are evidently not communicating. I am no theologian, pastor, ‘doctor of divinity’.

So, these questions may, as you say, “are of little value in this discussion”, but I’m asking anyway.

Something puzzles me:
Hilary of Poitiers, Origen, Cyril of Alexandria, Eusebius, Jerome, Gregory of Nyssa, Athanasius, Ambrosiaster, Paul of Emesa, Epiphanius, Aphraates, Theodoret, Cassiodorus, Palladius of Helenopolis, Basil of Selucia, Nilus of Ancyra, Isidore of Seville, John of Damascus, Ambrose, John Chrysostom, Augustine, and Gregory the Great (that would be the 64th ‘pope’), all ‘Early Fathers’ or theologians - disagreed with the Catholic Church’s ‘current’ ‘interpretation’ as Peter as ‘the’ rock.

It also seems strange (to me) that Jesus did not simply say, ““And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon YOU the Rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.”

Additionally, it seems more than strange that Jesus would contradict Himself, and the Father:

“For who is God, except the Lord? And who is a rock, except our God?” 2 Samuel 22:32

“Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.’ ” Isaiah 44:8

“No one is holy like the Lord, For there is none besides You, Nor is there any rock like our God.” 1 Samuel 2:2

“He is the Rock, His work is perfect; For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He.” Deuteronomy 32:4

“How could one chase a thousand, And two put ten thousand to flight, Unless their Rock had sold them, And the Lord had surrendered them? For their rock is not like our Rock, Even our enemies themselves being judges.” Deuteronomy 32:30-31

“The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer; My God, my strength, in whom I will trust; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.” Psalm 18:2

“The Lord lives! Blessed be my Rock! Let God be exalted, The Rock of my salvation!” 2 Samuel 22:47

“He shall cry to Me, ‘You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation.’” Psalm 89:26

Was Jesus unaware of the ‘Old Testament’ uses of the word ‘Rock’ as a name of God? OR was Jesus fulfilling the ‘Old Testament’ “The Rock of my salvation!” in the utterance, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”?

SJ Camp said...

Dear Thess:

You wrote: "The acts of penance prescribed by the Pope must be performed by the faithful, i.e. acts of prayers, penance, pilgrimages, etc. , etc. it's not just a wave of the Papal wand and purgatory is empty. I've said this and you do not seem to grasp it. People must go on the pilgrimages and say the prayers. They must go to Mass and have Masses offered. This is the means that God has granted the Pope the authority over. These acts merrit the grace of Christ. (emphasis added).

This is the issue in a nut shell isn't it?

Rome does believe that one is saved by grace, through faith in Christ. They have never taught a full on Pelagic system of works righteousness absent of faith.

But where Rome errors is adding works to faith; merit to grace; penance to Christ's completed atoning work. The equation for salvation according to Rome is: Christ by faith through grace + works + merit = salvation. The biblical equation is Christ by faith through grace = salvation.

As you have rightly stated above according to Romanist doctrine and gospel, but wrongly have concluded that somehow people must do penance and pilgrimage and prayers and mass, etc. and it is "these acts which merit the grace of Christ." Can you not see that your phrase itself is another gospel; that man by his efforts in obedience to the Pope and Rome's doctrines, that it is those things which merit grace? Talk about juxtaposed antithesis... The point of grace is that it can't be merited. If it can be, it is no longer grace, but works!

There are only two kinds of religion in this world: 1. the religion of human achievement; and 2. the religion of divine accomplishment. All other faith claims in this world apart from biblical Christianity are in the category of number one--human achievement. You have been faithful to Rome's claims--and by those claims, you even believe that those religious works merit grace.

Only faith lone, grace alone in Christ alone - without any additional merit whatsoever, is biblical Christianity. All other claims are damnable lies--even if they point to Jesus as the way (Matt. 7:21-23).

Christ's once for all sacrifice on the cross and His imputed righteousness to all who believe by His gracious gift of faith to us is all the merit needed to enter heaven completely clean--unstained by any sin that we would ever committ. Christ's atoning work is complete lacking nothing--and we are complete in HIm (Col. 2:9-10). There is nothing else needed to "make our souls clean."

May I invite you to repent of the dead works of Romanists' best works righteousness and trust solely in the Lord Jesus Christ - plus or minus nothing for salvation!

If I was an unregenerate pagan, I could believe in Rome's teachings; because it means that I can claim grace and still add my works to Christ which still allows me to glory in my efforts, even my best religious efforts to merit His grace! I can claim the grace of Christ and the merits of my righteousness deeds for the reason and sufficiency of my salvation.

Once again, this whole discussion comes down to two things and two things only: sola fide and sola scriptura.

Grace and peace to you,
Steve
2 Cor. 4:5-7

SJ Camp said...

In redemption and in sanctification; our righteousness and wisdom is found in Christ as our hope and strength. There is no other penance;pilgrimage; mass, etc. that is needed or is even profitable for this life or is necessary to prepare us for our future glorification with the Lord as well. They are neither instituted by Christ or HIs Apostles; affirmed by Christ or His Apostles; instructed by Christ or His Apostles; or part of Christ.

Listen to these words of the Apostle Paul:
"so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption. Therefore, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord." -1 Corinthians 1:29-31

"For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

"Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin." -Romans 4:2-8

Christ is truly our all in all!
Campi

SJ Camp said...

"Simon Peter or Cephas, the first pope, Prince of the Apostles," so says RCC writings in their Feastday calendar (nowhere does Scripture refer to him in these terms).

Peter, (GK: petros, meaning - a little stone, a pebble - cp, John 1:42), was an apostle and given the keys to the kingdom "and by extension" (MacArthur Study Bible) all other believers as well (John 20:23) where Christ gave the disciples authority to forgive (loose) or confirm one still caught in their sins (bind). This was not the power of absolution; but one of affirming the state of a believer (Matt. 18:15-20) in their walk with the Lord for the sake of the spiritual health of the church. In fact, all believers in the Lord were given this authority (Gal. 6:1-3) and fulfill the law of Christ in bearing the burdens (the temptation weight causing another to be led to sin) of another.

Peter is not the cornerstone of the Church--only Jesus Christ the Righteousness. The Lord is the head of the church, the architect and builder, its chief cornerstone and foundation (Col. 1:18; Matt. 16:18; 1 Peter 2:3-7; 1 Cor. 3:12).

True apostolic succession is not by papal election, but found in 2 Tim. 2:2, "and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also."

Even in the Apostle Paul's writing (the greatest of all the apostles, but yet in humility considered himself to be the chief of sinners) he says, "but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit." -Ephesians 2:18-22

"Power corrupts; and absolute power corrupts absolutely." This is the motive and foundation for papal authority--power. Playing politics with God is no place for pastoral servant-leadership. The Pope is more of a political leader than he is a spiritual one. But then, that is Satan's role as counterfeiter isn't it? To mock the genuine by a cheap substitute.

"Upon This Rock I will build my Church", The Rock is Christ...
Steve
2 Tim. 2:19

SJ Camp said...

I believe in prayer; I believe in not forsaking the assembling of ourselves for worship and fellowship; I believe we are to do good works for the Lord and that yes, we will be held accountable one day before the Judgment Seat of Christ. And, I also believe that His grace empowers us to do those things and to live in obedience to His Word.

BUT, those things do not merit His grace. Those things do not bring God's grace into my life. Those things are only a result of His grace working in me.

He gives me His grace for salvation--I cannot earn it. He gives me His grace for my sanctification--I cannot solicit it. He gives me His grace one day in my glorification when I am home with Him--I cannot entreat it.

His grace is a gift--a free gift. Grace is a provision for men who are so fallen they cannot lift the axe of justice; who are so corrupt they cannot turn to God; who are so adverse to God they cannot change their own natures. Who are so blind they cannot see; so deaf they cannot hear; and so dead, that He Himself must open their graves! That is grace.

Works are the fruit of God's grace and the evidence of real regeneration in ones life (Eph. 2:10). Faith without works is dead. But we do not obtain faith by those works. His grace (God's Righteousness At Christ's Expense) enables me to live for Him and do works that are in keeping with my repentance. Paul says in 2 Cor. that even the sorrow for the repentance is His gift to me. Without Him I can do nothing. And yet, my grace given sovereign privileges do not relieve me of my human responsibilities. Now that I am a Christian, by His grace i live for Him. And when I fail I must repent of those things that are not pleasing to Him and by His grace walk in newness of life once again.

Works cannot merit grace; the Pope cannot solicit grace on behalf of another as you have stated. Prayers, penance, pilgrimages, masses do not merit grace at all--and God's grace is only given to that which He has commanded we do according to His Word. Not according to some pontiff's religious works and doctrines that are not supported biblically and have been placed as weights on the backs of God's creatures in order to coerce them through fear and intimidation to obey Rome's dictates so that by their "rule-keeping" they can merit the grace of God and maybe one day find favor with Him through purgatorial cleansing; another's righteousness being applied from the Treasury of Merit; through penances; the eucharist; masses; pilgrimages, etc. Man... Christ bore it all on the cross and if you know Him as your Lord and Savior - you are already clean before Him! You have the full righteousness of Christ imputed to you; you have been forgiven of all your sins - past, present and future; and by His grace He enables you to live for Him and He will complete the good work that He began in you!

That is my prayer for you Thess... that you come to know the greatness of Christ's finished work on the cross and the depth of His grace by faith that He has given to us for our salvation, sanctification and glorification.

I love Him only because He first loved me; and that nothing can separate me from His love; and nothing can keep me in His love except His sustaining grace.

As our Lord has said and the invitation is still open today, "Come to Me all ye who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest." What powerful words of rest, grace, provision and truth...

Yours for the Master's use,
Steve Camp
Col. 1:9-14

dogpreacher said...

Amen! It is not of works...but we are created unto good works which God hath before (GRACIOUSLY)ordained that we should walk in (Ephesians 2:8-10)...I am...

grateful for grace.

pilgrim said...

One last comment from me and I may be accused of an "obvuscation"

The only obfuscation I see here is form thessalonian--still playing word games-

Steve already quoted these words Thessalonian wrote-
"These acts merrit the grace of Christ."

It doesn't matter how many Bible verses you take out of context, it doesn't matter how you redefine things, and play word games--adding any merit to grace other than Christ's nullifies grace.
Even if that merit was earned because of Christ.

8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10 (English Standard Version)

The idea that v 10 has to do with us earning merit or anything of the sort is refuted by what Paul wrote right before. These works are not to merit salvation or to keep salvation, but in response to salvation--if God saves you, you will do good works for that reason.
That's the plain meaning of this passage.

Read Romans 3 to see what it says, not with Rome galsses or geneva glasses--what is Paul saying about us? The plain meaning, with no word games.

Well I've been down this road before, and I'm stopping here.

If I went to a RC blog and did this, the burden of proof would be on me. Here it is on Thessalonian--who has been answered by Scripture--he doesn't show signs of engaging in anything resembling dialogue. I am figuratively shaking his dust from my feet.

pilgrim said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
dogpreacher said...

Mr. thess.;

The scriptures you responded to me with are not contextual to the point that I made.

Pilgrim is right, you do like to play with words. Nevertheless, it is lack of spiritual discernment (life) that prohibits ones understanding (1 Cor. 2:14) of spiritual things. It is an impossibility for the natural man to discern spiritual things.

Sadly,I believe one of us is dead!

I am staking my claim that it isn't me on the fact that I am violently aware of my total inability to merit God's grace (Romans 11:6), whereas it sounds like you feel like you will be bringing a price in your hand to the Judgement. You can't buy it, Thess., they have mislead you with the indulgences.

SJ Camp said...

This blog is alive and well Thess. This thread has been pretty much exhausted though.

You have a lot of folks praying for all you Romanists. Even though you don't like to admit it, you guys have shared some very contradictory things on a wide variety of subjects. i understand that for when you try to mix Scripture with the dictates of Rome it can be very confusing.

You can't escape though my friend the reality of what you shared near the end of last week; that you believe the Pope's authority on prayers, pilgrimages, masses, penances, etc. are the very things that "merit the grace of Christ." That was telling Thess--and honest. I commend you for representing accurately on that point what Rome actually stands for. It isn't biblical; it is works righteousness; it is contradictory - meriting grace; and it is glorifying to man - for it denies the very sufficiency of Christ's imputed righteousness and His complete atoning work for all stages of our salvation (justification; sanctification; glorification).

He suffered as our divine substitute so that we wouldn't. He was treated as if He lived our life so that by grace we can be treated as if we lived His life (paraphrase of Dr. MacArthur's words).

Substitution, imputation, justification by faith alone; etc. these are the core issues here aren't they?

Read Romans 3-4 and you will find no support biblically for any doctrine of Rome that you have postulated on this blog so far. Though Rome recognizes that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ--they do not recognize that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone.

Grace and peace,
Steve

dogpreacher said...

Thess,

Have you noticed that even though some of us disagree (even vehemently) with you, that a common thread thru this thread has been concern for your eternal life?

After taking a great amount of time to read your former comments, I see NONE of that concern for those of us that you say (as in your last reply directed against my comment to you) are goats and will burn in hell.

Where is the "Christ in you", Thess? Where is the compassion for
our [sic] lost souls? Do you care for me, Thess?

Your speech has not evidenced this.

SJ Camp said...

Dear Thess:

I am not trying to be offensive to you. I am very sorry that my comments are communicating that to you.

Once again, though, you say now that you believe salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone because of Christ alone - but Rome, Tridentine doctrines, V-1 and V-2, the New Catechism of the Catholic Church (1994) all deny that. But more importantly, your very unequivocal words: "...that merit the grace of Christ." Those words are self-condemning on this point. There is no maneuvering around that declaration is there. You were honest enough to admit Rome's teaching and your acceptance of it--I applauded your honesty.

But now, you're flip/flopping on this issue is truly beneath you. Just own it... and then let's talk about the gospel--biblically.

I do have a quick question: why is the term Romanist offensive to you? Isn't that what you identify as your faith and the hub of Christian doctrine?

dogpreacher said...

Thess,

Your reply has evidenced the contents of my comment to you. You lied...again. You referred to me as a goat for the second time. There is anger in your comments.

No longer casting pearls,

The Sower

Unchained Slave said...

Hmm,
Just a question for Thess and others:
In all your 'knowledge', all your 'references' to the 'early fathers', In all your 'facts', In an all the wisdon...
Have you become so engrossed in winning, that you have forgotten the inner working of the Holy Spirit and its urgings?

Thess - the vehemence in some of your comments, voices the possiblility, to me, that perhaps - there is a voice in you - that you shout down...
That voice may not be the temptation you 'think' it is, maybe it is the
Holy Spirit calling you 'home',
not to the Cathedrals of Rome.

Sr. Mina, BSP said...

Excuse me, sir, but I find it awfully sad that you prefer to foster anger and hatred rather than kindness and love. You're being a terrible Christian by being anti-Catholic. Surely you're a better person than this.

Catholics believe in God, in Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Spirit. They believe in all things Biblical and they follow all of Jesus' teachings. Yet, you mistreat fellow Christians by this horrible conduct. Look at the comments its caused. I don't see kindness and love nor Christ-like behaviour. Are these REALLY the kind of Christians you want to see? I certainly don't. Give me a hug rather than an argument. Yeesh.

Indulgences are a way to lessen time spent in Purgatory. You gain them through different kinds of prayers, different kinds of devotions, adoring Jesus, reading the Bible for a half-hour or longer, and the final way to get them was to make a charity contribution. There's NO SELLING involved! In the past, yes, they were sold. The Roman Catholic Church has recanted that heretical practise. Thus, selling no longer goes on. Purgatory is mentioned in the Bible, as well as the papacy.

If anyone wants peaceful dialogue with me, just email me at seremina@yahoo.com

Good day. God bless you.

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