tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post114922860805737743..comments2024-03-24T03:21:03.154-04:00Comments on CAMPONTHIS: Holding Your Pastors Accountable...being a faithful member in your local churchSJ Camphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-13237268999488326802013-11-19T12:16:26.214-05:002013-11-19T12:16:26.214-05:00Excellent article Steve, The Holy Spirit spoke to ...Excellent article Steve, The Holy Spirit spoke to me to minister on this topic. I was in search of scriptures relating to the accountability of Shepherds and found your blog. It truly is necessary to be taught in the churches. God Bless.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04522029679055808202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-83885976569821168522013-08-22T01:52:33.643-04:002013-08-22T01:52:33.643-04:00Thank you so much for your valuable insight into t...Thank you so much for your valuable insight into this much too common problem. I needed the confirmation I found here that my thoughts are correct and biblical. I know now that I must go forward. Thanks again for your encouragement.<br />JuanitaAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16738917843446289702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-83868174498658783412012-10-12T15:08:33.504-04:002012-10-12T15:08:33.504-04:00Steve,
Thanks for a thorough and thoughtful look a...Steve,<br />Thanks for a thorough and thoughtful look at Leadership and accountability. I am a pastor who was recently "retired" early by the founding pastor who found fault with me. Having brought me in to replace him as pastor without elder approval he just as quickly "retired" me without the elder approval when not happy with my vision. <br /><br />The church is still reeling. I had no recourse other than to leave. For the past 3 months I have floundered and asked myself why. I finally have come to rest and peace that the call of God is still real and tangible in my life - it is irrevocable. I have forwarded your article to the many members of the church I left to see if they may be able to work with this pastor. They have been asking me for an article such as yours. I do not believe I found it by mistake. I pray it will give them some insight and recourse to try and bring some accountability to the pastor.<br /><br />We all must live with being accountable to someone. if not then the Protestant papacy - or 'cultism' is at the door and life in the church rises or sets by that one man's opinion and whim.<br />This is unhealthy and I have seen firsthand how bad it can get.<br /><br />The problem is that many have tried to talk to this pastor but he just ignores them and does his own thing.<br /><br />I am glad for the experience in hindsight as it has made me tougher and more thoughtful about my next ministry.<br /><br />keep up the good work.<br />A son of the King - DSonoftheKing-Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15859219682876708732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-29483095651916221522011-04-10T11:08:16.097-04:002011-04-10T11:08:16.097-04:00thank you for this excellent biblical advise.
Wou...thank you for this excellent biblical advise.<br /><br />Would very much like to print it off.<br /><br />May I have permission to print?<br /><br />Thank you<br />BrendaBrendahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09975747175462141524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-35498957038294801672011-04-10T11:06:54.641-04:002011-04-10T11:06:54.641-04:00thank you for sound biblical advise.
our local ass...thank you for sound biblical advise.<br />our local assembly is currently dealing with problems and some of our leadership are very adamant that the pastor is not accountable to the elders or any of the local body.<br /><br />we very much need biblical principals in this matter. I was also trying to print and cannot.<br /><br />Asking for permission to print.<br /><br />Thank you so very much<br /><br />~Brenda (bjt@sasktel.net)Brendahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09975747175462141524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-58618924204490746592011-02-23T22:33:37.470-05:002011-02-23T22:33:37.470-05:00I thought this was very good and would like to cop...I thought this was very good and would like to copy it. I tried but was unable to do so. I was wondering if it was blocked for some reason. Do I need your permission to copy and use this? If so, may I have permission? ThanksUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11215981511012810830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-66893770117933400092011-02-23T22:31:35.245-05:002011-02-23T22:31:35.245-05:00I thought this was very good and would like to cop...I thought this was very good and would like to copy it but when I try I can't get it to copy. Is it blocked for some reason. If so, could I copy it with your permission? Thank-youUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11215981511012810830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-60877707516716592722010-03-30T07:05:00.471-04:002010-03-30T07:05:00.471-04:00I was searching for just this, to know what to do....I was searching for just this, to know what to do. I love our pastor but I cannot condone the spiritual bullying that is done to those who disagree with the drastic changes he is making. Our elderly and long time members are heart broken that working members of the church are leaving our midst. Every time someone questions the path he is leading the congregation he accuses them of not having their heart right with God. Your words have helped me in knowing that I am right in my thoughts.Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04295884683174551458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-69584807655507815382007-07-18T02:42:00.000-04:002007-07-18T02:42:00.000-04:00Thank you for posting this, Steve. I think there a...Thank you for posting this, Steve. I think there are a lot of pastors who need to be held accountable--well, all of them do--but congregations either feel like their hands are tied or they don't understand the Biblical mandate for us to keep check on those in positions of spiritual authority. Hopefully with your blessing, I've posted your blog piece on my site at <A>www.jesusfreak.com/accountability.asp</A>.<BR/><BR/>Thanks again for your obedience to the Lord, Steve.<BR/><BR/><BR/>In His grip,<BR/>Chad SteenersonChad@JesusFreak.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02914036396674703761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-65513479961317826302007-06-18T00:09:00.000-04:002007-06-18T00:09:00.000-04:00Did you write this article just for me? :-)After ...Did you write this article just for me? :-)<BR/><BR/>After two years of attempting to work with my well-known pastor, I felt the Lord leading me to expose him for ecclesiastical abuse. Many people don't agree with what I have done, but God is using this public forum to change many people's lives, mine being the first.<BR/><BR/>Your article here was a confirmation that sometimes this is sorely needed. I wish it weren't so, but this statement you made is my goal:<BR/><BR/><I>"It's goal is always to see a man living holy before the Lord, honoring Him with a repentant life, and ultimately fit for the Master's use (2 Timothy 2)."</I><BR/><BR/>This is a great article and I will be linking to it from my site telling my story of ecclesiastical abuse. Thank you for taking a stand for the hard things.Jen Fishburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240505611077771944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1152557330544840862006-07-10T14:48:00.000-04:002006-07-10T14:48:00.000-04:00return to righteousness:I don't allow anonymous po...<B>return to righteousness:</B><BR/><BR/>I don't allow anonymous posting here. When I clicked on your "nic" for your profile, there was no biographical information listed. Please fill out all bio information.... I want to know whom I am dialoging with here.<BR/><BR/>I have deleted your post (which, BTW, was massively incorrect) until until you comply with the rules of this blog. When you do so, you may return here as part of the conversation and I will address your nefarious assertions about the Apostle Paul.<BR/><BR/>Sincerely,<BR/>Steve Camp<BR/>Col. 1:9-14SJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1149649488887812522006-06-06T23:04:00.000-04:002006-06-06T23:04:00.000-04:00Why doesn't this post get 176 comments? It should...Why doesn't this post get 176 comments? It should (but I won't do it myself, I promise!) Not only does my church need to hear stuff like this, I need to hear it everyday. Thanks, Steve.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1149639745851588002006-06-06T20:22:00.000-04:002006-06-06T20:22:00.000-04:00To Mike, JoythruChrist, Scott, Timotheos, and Teli...<B>To Mike, JoythruChrist, Scott, Timotheos, and Telika:</B><BR/><BR/>Thank you all for your very encouraging words, insights and additional quotes. Mike, I have that as well in my iPaq. John didn't author it, but it is a very, very powerful reminder of the duty of the servant-leader in Christ... amen?<BR/><BR/>May the Lord keep us broken vessels, fit for His use in all that we do.<BR/><BR/>And may we pray for our pastors--remembering they are sheep too still in process as we are.<BR/><BR/>Grace and peace,<BR/>Steve<BR/>Heb. 13:17SJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1149541636112861162006-06-05T17:07:00.000-04:002006-06-05T17:07:00.000-04:00This was a very good, very insightful article. I a...This was a very good, very insightful article. I also love your music. I heard about your blog on 90.1 wmbi today. God bless!<BR/>and please visit my blog matthew1236.blogspot.com I talk about everyday situations and how I use the word of God in my everyday life. It's much shorter then yours but I'm proud of it. It would be such a blessing to me if you were to visit and comment!<BR/>much loveTelikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04868259374671474546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1149465805276836722006-06-04T20:03:00.000-04:002006-06-04T20:03:00.000-04:00Just another note. I happened to read this post t...Just another note. I happened to read this post this morning before church. I had already written my Sunday School lesson for college students from 2 Peter 2 (about false teachers), and the lesson included an encouragement to my students to examine everything they hear in light of Scripture. I told them (as I have told our congregation many times) that they need to examine everything <I>I</I> say to make sure that I am doctrinally sound. I don't want to preach false doctrine!<BR/><BR/>Well, it just so happened that after my sermon, a young man who was not in that Sunday School class approached me and said, "I know this is a small thing, but I feel I need to correct something you said today." Now, the good news is that it wasn't a doctrinal matter, but just a definitional matter that probably no one other than this particular person even noticed. But I thanked him and praised God. I want to be correct in everything I say, and I am grateful for men like this who are willing to graciously help me be the man of God I so desperately long to be.<BR/><BR/>Of course, there are those who are not doctrinally sound who like to correct as well. I only see that as an opportunity to teach them. For the most part, almost every comment I have ever gotten has been given graciously, and even the ones that weren't were at times helpful to me.Mike Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865088749948770400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1149464779639427292006-06-04T19:46:00.000-04:002006-06-04T19:46:00.000-04:00Here it is, from MacArthur's Rediscovering Exposit...Here it is, from MacArthur's <I>Rediscovering Expository Preaching</I> (pp. 348-49):<BR/><BR/>Fling him into his office. Tear the “Office” sign from the door and nail on the sign, “Study.” Take him off the mailing list. Lock him up with his books and his typewriter and his Bible. Slam him down on his knees before texts and broken hearts and the flock of lives of a superficial flock and a holy God.<BR/><BR/>Force him to be the one man in our surfeited communities who knows about God. Throw him into the ring to box with God until he learns how short his arms are. Engage him to wrestle with God all the night through. And let him come out only when he’s bruised and beaten into being a blessing.<BR/><BR/>Shut his mouth forever spouting remarks, and stop his tongue forever tripping lightly over every nonessential. Require him to have something to say before he dares break the silence. Bend his knees in the lonesome valley.<BR/><BR/>Burn his eyes with weary study. Wreck his emotional poise with worry for God. And make him exchange his pious stance for a humble walk with God and man. Make him spend and be spent for the glory of God. Rip out his telephone. Burn up his ecclesiastical success sheets.<BR/><BR/>Put water in his gas tank. Give him a Bible and tie him to the pulpit. And make him preach the Word of the living God!<BR/><BR/>Test him. Quiz him. Examine him. Humiliate him for his ignorance of things divine. Shame him for his good comprehension of finances, batting averages, and political in-fighting. Laugh at his frustrated effort to play psychiatrist. Form a choir and raise a chant and haunt him with it night and day—“Sir, we would see Jesus.”<BR/><BR/>When at long last he dares assay the pulpit, ask him if he has a word from God. If he does not, then dismiss him. Tell him you can read the morning paper and digest the television commentaries, and think through the day’s superficial problems, and manage the community’s weary drives, and bless the sordid baked potatoes and green beans, <I>ad infinitum</I>, better than he can.<BR/><BR/>Command him not to come back until he’s read and reread, written and rewritten, until he can stand up, worn and forlorn, and say, “Thus saith the Lord.”<BR/><BR/>Break him across the board of his ill-gotten popularity. Smack him hard with his own prestige. Corner him with questions about God. Cover him with demands for celestial wisdom. And give him no escape until he’s back against the wall of the Word.<BR/><BR/>And sit down before him and listen to the only word he as left—God’s Word. Let him be totally ignorant of the down-street gossip, but give him a chapter and order him to walk around it, camp on it, sup with it, and come at last to speak it backward and forward, until all he says about it rings with the truth of eternity.<BR/><BR/>And when he’s burned out by the flaming Word, when he’s consumed at last by the fiery grace blazing through him, and when he’s privileged to translate the truth of God to man, finally transferred from earth to heaven, then bear him away gently and blow a muted trumpet and lay him down softly. Place a two-edged sword in his coffin, and raise the tomb triumphant. For he was a brave soldier of the Word. And ere he died, he had become a man of God.Mike Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865088749948770400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1149460163084725932006-06-04T18:29:00.000-04:002006-06-04T18:29:00.000-04:00Mr. Camp, I simply can't thank you enough for this...Mr. Camp, I simply can't thank you enough for this post. This subject touches my family's life in a very personal way. I have written a post about our story(quoting yours in part and linking here).<BR/>Thanks again!<BR/>http://tobysthoughts-jtc.blogspot.com/2006/06/on-pastoral-accountability.htmljenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15362216258784981618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1149459111972839572006-06-04T18:11:00.000-04:002006-06-04T18:11:00.000-04:00Excellent article, Steve. This is a wonderful exp...Excellent article, Steve. This is a wonderful explanation of biblical leadership.<BR/><BR/>I attend a fellowship where there are no elders or leaders...just a pastor. The issue with this is not that he is abusing power or doing anything that we know of that is immoral or wrong. But there is clearly a lack of opportunity for others to excercise their gifts.<BR/><BR/>Under your third point, you mention extending grace toward various weakness that a leader may have. In the case of our church, the body suffers from his weakness if no one else is allowed to 'be strong' in that particular area. I don't mean in a manner that usurps authority or position, but is allowed to offer counsel or help to cover a pastor's inability to, say, make administrative decisions.<BR/><BR/>It appears that he sees needing help from others as either a weakness, or a challenge to his authority. <BR/><BR/>I have worked in ministry around pastors for many years, and have yet to find a pastor who handles even the most gentle of criticism very well.Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02538359844177352997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1149424183090635652006-06-04T08:29:00.000-04:002006-06-04T08:29:00.000-04:00Mike:Thank you for your encouraging words and YES....<B>Mike:</B><BR/>Thank you for your encouraging words and YES... please post the "anonymous layman's..." here. For something this good we will tolerate the length :-).<BR/><BR/>Grace and peace to you brother,<BR/>Steve<BR/>2 Cor. 4:5-7SJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1149419887863288632006-06-04T07:18:00.000-04:002006-06-04T07:18:00.000-04:00This was great, Steve. With all the debate over p...This was great, Steve. With all the debate over pastors/elders within the SBC today, there is a lot of confusion. I've seen a lot of laypeople and pastors/elders alike who misunderstand the concept of elder as being one without any congregational accountability. I am a pastor, and in my prayer journal, I keep a copy of the anonymous layman's advice on how to treat your pastor that MacArthur included in the last of his FAQ's in his book <I>Rediscovering Expository Preaching</I>. I like to read it occasionally. It's kind of long, but if anyone would like, I'll post it here.Mike Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865088749948770400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1149292325384124042006-06-02T19:52:00.000-04:002006-06-02T19:52:00.000-04:00Steve,As a pastor, I appreciate your insights.Havi...Steve,<BR/>As a pastor, I appreciate your insights.<BR/><BR/>Having sat under the ministry of a man who was unapproachable, I still feel the sting of an unaccountable elder.<BR/><BR/>Please pray for us 'shepherds,' for our humility, our teachable spirits and our dependence upon the Word of God.<BR/><BR/>Thanks in advance,<BR/><BR/>TimTimotheoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16880788118136612744noreply@blogger.com