tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post8277255989922771700..comments2024-03-18T07:16:30.591-04:00Comments on CAMPONTHIS: HOW WIDE IS THE NARROW ROAD AT LAKEWOOD CHURCH?...Pastor Osteen believes Mormons are Christians tooSJ Camphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-58759564069746761972007-12-31T11:12:00.000-05:002007-12-31T11:12:00.000-05:00With regards to knowing who to believe, when there...With regards to knowing who to believe, when there are so many "holy books" and so many opinions, it was once explained to me in this way: <BR/>If we are to assume that there is a creator God, and further assume that He cared about his creatures, then it would follow that He would seek to communicate with them. Further, He would provide his communication in such a manner that any who took the time could understand it. Since Mormons, Jehovah's Witness' and Muslims all agree that the Bible is in fact God's word then why would He need men to interpret for him? Is He unable to make himself understood? Is He unable to preserve his inspired word from error? Why then do we need to look to men to interpret for us what God has enabled us to understand for ourselves.Don Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00011617857167857519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-47006780951634014332007-12-31T07:17:00.000-05:002007-12-31T07:17:00.000-05:00tk - I know you asked these questions of other peo...tk - <BR/><BR/>I know you asked these questions of other people, but I will attempt to respond on my own behalf and you can feel free to ignore or respond.<BR/><BR/><I>"Are you concerned only about the Mormon souls or are other religions a concern for you as well? Who gave you authoity to know the status of my soul and judge if I am in need of saving? You have never met me and based on one blog post you know if I need saving?" I would never assume that authority over another person. This is a judgment belongs to God not man. I'm sure you agree."</I><BR/><BR/>Clearly nobody has the ability to know with perfect certainty whether or not you are regenerate. Only God knows that. But those who have been called and regenerated have been given the command to discern false gospels from the true gospel. Mormonism preaches a false gospel and this must be pointed out. Furthermore, regenerate people are called to compel people to listen to the true gospel and repent, especially those who advocate another gospel message. <BR/><BR/>See: Matt 7:15; 24:11; 24:24; 1 Cor 11:13; Gal 5:20; 2 Pet 2:1; 1 John 4:1<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>"How did you learn about the Mormon Church to know they teach about demons? Did you go to one of their churches, did you read the book "Jesus the Christ"?<BR/><BR/>How do I know that what you teach is truth?"</I><BR/><BR/>I don't know about anyone else but I learned what I know by reading the Book of Mormon, the Doctrines and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. The funny thing to me has been that the BOM told me that simply reading the KJV bible was enough for me to see the truth of the Mormon gospel. Then the D&C told me I had to read the BOM to understand the Bible. Then I had two Mormon elders tell me recently that I head to read the D&C to understand either one. Now it appears you are telling me I have to read something else. Where does this end? How many more books does a person have to read in order to understand the true gospel that Joseph Smith says can be found in the Bible?<BR/><BR/><I>"The Catholics claim their authority came from Peter. The Jews claim their authority came by God through Moses. Muslums claim their authority is from God through Mohamd.<BR/><BR/>Where is your authority?"</I><BR/><BR/>Matthew 28:18-20<BR/><BR/>And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.<BR/><BR/>Also, let me add one more to your list. The LDS church claims it's authority from unseen golden plates written in a fictitious language translated by a convicted felon. <BR/><BR/>Moreover, the tone of your comments would seem to indicate that you are simply a skeptic and not a fully committed Mormon believer. Regardless, I would plead with you to simply consider the truth found in the message of Christ. If something is true, you should not have to add something else to it in order to see it's truthfulness.<BR/><BR/>Lucas DefalcoLucas Defalcohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11545170891107085560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-41432092172130183352007-12-30T21:38:00.000-05:002007-12-30T21:38:00.000-05:00Tk,Thanks for the answer to my question.Tk,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the answer to my question.S.J. Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15922550763548455625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-81441037297801723532007-12-28T07:13:00.000-05:002007-12-28T07:13:00.000-05:00Steve -As I sit here shaking my head in disbelief ...Steve -<BR/><BR/>As I sit here shaking my head in disbelief once again after another Joel Osteen interview on a national TV news program, the only thought I can muster right now is that Joel Osteen had better repent now for leading so many people astray by false doctrine because the wrath of God looms heavy over such remarks.<BR/><BR/>Lucas DefalcoLucas Defalcohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11545170891107085560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-84602718372189233312007-12-26T12:41:00.000-05:002007-12-26T12:41:00.000-05:00When I was a new Christain I thought Mormans were ...When I was a new Christain I thought Mormans were included.<BR/><BR/>I used to cheer for BYU football. Then with a short season God set me right through His Word, which is truth.<BR/><BR/>I learned the truth, and I also gained some knowledge of Mormon doctrine.<BR/><BR/>The bottom line with Mormonism is it's a false religion of works. Their gospel is a perverted gospel.<BR/><BR/>They may argue grace, but their grace is works.<BR/><BR/>They do not believe Christ is our salvation, but that our salvation is up to our repenting, believeing, and then continuing to live lives that are acceptable to the Bible and the book of mormon.<BR/><BR/>So if you ever bump into a couple of genuinely gracious young men, and then want to talk about God, Joseph Smith, and heaven, then go right to the bottom line of being saved by grace alone through faith alone. Amen.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the heads-up Steve.<BR/>Hope you had a great Christmas!<BR/><BR/>Sad about Osteen. He should know better, and God will certainly hold him responsible. Be not many teachers, for your judgement will be according to your stature.<BR/>I pray Joel would repent, and start speaking the truth of God's Word in love. Amen.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-61569655618981383392007-12-25T01:11:00.000-05:002007-12-25T01:11:00.000-05:00Thanks for this post. It seems more and more profe...Thanks for this post. It seems more and more professing Christians are more than willing to help blur the lines between black and white.<BR/><BR/>For more great discourse on the cult of Mormonism, check out: http://reformationnation.wordpress.com/category/mormonism/<BR/><BR/>Sincerely,<BR/>- The Pilgrim<BR/>from www.ReformationNation.netReformation Nationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12851298398298403727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-9815271611511714602007-12-25T01:09:00.000-05:002007-12-25T01:09:00.000-05:00Thanks for this post Steve. It seems more and more...Thanks for this post Steve. It seems more and more professing Christians are more than willing to help blur the lines between right and wrong.<BR/><BR/>For some great discussions on the subject of Mormonism (including with Mormons) check out:<BR/>http://reformationnation.wordpress.com/category/mormonism/<BR/><BR/>Merry Christmas!<BR/><BR/>Sincerely,<BR/>The Pilgrim <BR/>from www.ReformationNation.netReformation Nationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12851298398298403727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-60261312709812705752007-12-24T23:11:00.000-05:002007-12-24T23:11:00.000-05:00Thank you Alan... you too my brother. Merry Chris...<B>Thank you Alan...</B> you too my brother. Merry Christmas and may the Lord honor your faithfulness to Christ and His Word.<BR/><BR/><B>livingdust</B><BR/>Amen and well said. Excellent counsel. Thank you.<BR/><BR/>SteveSJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-25764485525770310742007-12-24T22:45:00.000-05:002007-12-24T22:45:00.000-05:00TK,I have read the Book of Mormon and the writings...TK,<BR/><BR/>I have read the Book of Mormon and the writings of others who have done extensive research into the teaching of the Mormon cult. It's plain to see that the Jesus of the Mormon cult is NOT the Jesus of the Holy Bible. <BR/><BR/>The Scriptures exhort us in 1 John 4:1-6 - Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.<BR/><BR/>TK - let me encourage you to search the Scriptures, examine the evidence and as John writes - test the spirits.LivingDusthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08720875895794590283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-9901699727142290722007-12-24T22:05:00.000-05:002007-12-24T22:05:00.000-05:00God bless you brother Steve. Merry ChristmasGod bless you brother Steve. Merry ChristmasAlan E. Kurschnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08963783504805163298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-78543987200179070562007-12-24T17:48:00.000-05:002007-12-24T17:48:00.000-05:00BillThank you... I encoded it for the main page.Bl...<B>Bill</B><BR/>Thank you... I encoded it for the main page.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>SteveSJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-85221841050300632002007-12-24T14:42:00.000-05:002007-12-24T14:42:00.000-05:00Regarding online statements of faith and prayers.....Regarding online statements of faith and prayers... most supposed false prophets and false teachers have them on their websites (like Benny Hinn, for instance). They are there, so they can point to them when challenged about doctrine, but they themselves don't use them for their teachings. <BR/><BR/>Whether Joel Osteen falls into this category or not, some would say the jury is still out. After this with Mormonism, I'd say the jury just got back with their verdict.Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01348892571174892393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-39906384491054282982007-12-24T14:40:00.000-05:002007-12-24T14:40:00.000-05:00Steve, Here is the link to that interview on foxn...Steve, <BR/><BR/>Here is the link to that interview on foxnews.com<BR/><BR/>http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player06.html?122307/122307_fns_osteen&FNS&Joel%20Osteen%20on%20%27FOX%20News%20Sunday%27&acc&US&-1&News&829&&&exp<BR/><BR/><BR/>BillWm Malloryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17619306988009780453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-89622456155347031192007-12-24T14:20:00.000-05:002007-12-24T14:20:00.000-05:00Gigantor, Living Dust & SJ Camp. 1. Gigantor - "It...Gigantor, Living Dust & SJ Camp. <BR/><BR/>1. Gigantor - "It is not about fear or who is right or wrong, it is simply about truth. We are concerned about the eternal condition of the soul of those who hold to the Mormon system of beliefs,"<BR/><BR/>Are you concerned only about the Mormon souls or are other religions a concern for you as well? Who gave you authoity to know the status of my soul and judge if I am in need of saving? You have never met me and based on one blog post you know if I need saving?" I would never assume that authority over another person. This is a judgment belongs to God not man. I'm sure you agree.<BR/><BR/><BR/>2. Living Dust - "Answer - The Mormon cult teaches and preaches doctrines of demons... there is only one Gospel - learn it, share it.<BR/><BR/>How did you learn about the Mormon Church to know they teach about demons? Did you go to one of their churches, did you read the book "Jesus the Christ"?<BR/><BR/>How do I know that what you teach is truth? <BR/><BR/><BR/>3. SJ Camp - You gave me several scriptures to read. However, everyone thinks they have the truth, this is no sure test of knowledge or authority. Jesus was very specific about those that have Priesthood Authority to act in his name. He ordained his chosen to His Priesthood. John 15:16; By what authority do you preach? Mark 11:28<BR/><BR/>The Catholics claim their authority came from Peter. The Jews claim their authority came by God through Moses. Muslums claim their authority is from God through Mohamd.<BR/><BR/>Where is your authority?tkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11331475184519164246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-66136146324543454742007-12-24T14:04:00.000-05:002007-12-24T14:04:00.000-05:00Kevin,You said: "Many now reading these words are ...Kevin,<BR/><BR/>You said: "Many now reading these words are passing judgment."<BR/><BR/>With all due respect you have just passed passed judgment yourself. The fact is as Christ's ambassadors we are to make judgment on what someone's teaching.<BR/><BR/>The Master even tells - "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." (John 7:24) What we are not to do is judge someone's motivation as to why they teach it.Ken Silvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01390319268507275969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-33826361936801809322007-12-24T13:52:00.000-05:002007-12-24T13:52:00.000-05:00How quick we are to judge, when the Lord himself s...How quick we are to judge, when the Lord himself said judgment will be His. Many now reading these words are passing judgment. Repent now and come unto Christ the Lord.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16622665937525603897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-59490927920329152192007-12-24T13:24:00.000-05:002007-12-24T13:24:00.000-05:00Thanks Ken... We need to remember those training ...<B>Thanks Ken...</B> <BR/>We need to remember those training men for ministry at the seminaries in prayer about these things. To me, it is another proof that elders/pastors should be trained within the local church model and not a university model.<BR/><BR/><B>To All:</B><BR/>If you go to Joel's website, the online gospel presentation and "sinner's prayer" (which I don't advocate btw) are very sound and biblical. Lakewood's own statement of faith is also quite good.<BR/><BR/>Joel needs to be held accountable to its truth and standard that his own church embraces and chiefly to the standard of God's Word for the pastor as primarily explained in Acts 20 1 and 2 Timothy and Titus.<BR/><BR/>Grace and peace,<BR/>Steve<BR/>Col. 3:16-17SJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-33358314629598164362007-12-24T13:17:00.000-05:002007-12-24T13:17:00.000-05:00Joel's gospel is inoffensive. That is it's primar...Joel's gospel is inoffensive. That is it's primary point.<BR/><BR/>BECAUSE Joel preaches a shadow of Christianity that is not offensive , he will continue to be called on to represent Christianity in the media. <BR/><BR/>The day is coming when those of us who believe John 14:6 and the rest of what God has said about Himself in His Word will be seen as a cult.JustJanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01018736121402047952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-23419803319635309032007-12-24T12:26:00.000-05:002007-12-24T12:26:00.000-05:00how tragic that the church has to debate this amon...how tragic that the church has to debate this amongst itself.<BR/>how tragic that those supposedly called to feed the flock use i don't know as an answer.<BR/>how tragic that the church goes around endorsing political candidates as if that is a solution to the darkness that has a death grip on this world.<BR/>how tragic that the church today has embraced the world as if this is our home.<BR/>how tragic that we seem to have forgotten that regeneration begins with a broken heart at the foot of the cross.<BR/>ken, steve and all who labor faithfully, keep on keeping on for the time is coming where no man can work.junkyardboyzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12665970257590730826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-4945879722173658812007-12-24T10:26:00.000-05:002007-12-24T10:26:00.000-05:00Steve,I'm sorry, I didn't see this until this morn...Steve,<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry, I didn't see this until this morning. No doubt I appreciate your labors in the Lord as well my brother.<BR/><BR/>You asked me: "do you think that the theological underpinnings at Fuller really do favor an inclusivistic view of salvation i.e. Mormonism? And if so, anyone else besides Mouw affirming such?"<BR/><BR/><BR/>It is certainly headed that way. I personally think the liberalism among their professors - which even Dr. Walter Martin talked about in the early 80's - is at the root. Though Mouw is the only one I have seen say this publicly though re. Mormonism - specifically about Millet's book.<BR/><BR/>As you know Fuller gave birth to the new evangelical Church Growth Movement. So I don't find it surprising this is where Warren got his doctorate and Bell his Masters.Ken Silvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01390319268507275969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-3929296149255176692007-12-24T10:14:00.000-05:002007-12-24T10:14:00.000-05:00open mindYou said, "Go look at their website; ther...<B>open mind</B><BR/>You said, <I>"Go look at their website; there is no anti-evangelical rhetoric, there is no anti-Baptist rhetoric and a matter of fact there is nothing judgmental or critical about any other religion. "</I><BR/><BR/>I understand that... for the cults want to remain as inclusive and tolerant as possible to become as popular as possible. But there is an offense to the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 1:18-23); and any other gospel other than the one preached by our Lord or the Apostles reaps only eternal perdition (Gal. 1:6-9).<BR/><BR/>The anti-evangelical or anit-baptist rhetoric is not my concern; it is the anti-biblical beliefs that are.<BR/><BR/>Mormon's do believe that Jesus was a created being and is the older brother of Lucifer; they deny the doctrine of the Trinity; they deny the authority of God's Word; they teach that God the Father has a physical body; and they teach salvation by other means rather than by grace through faith in Christ alone. IOW, they worship not the God of the Bible, but a god of their own imagination.<BR/><BR/>That is eternally serious. <BR/><BR/>I am not threatened by Mormons or angry at them; I am burdened for them that they come to know genuine salvation through the gospel of Jesus Christ.<BR/><BR/>This is a hard post to put up the day before Christmas; but it is precisely what we are talking about Immanuel, God with us; Jesus who shall save His people from their sins that makes it vitally important.<BR/><BR/>Christmas is not about sentimentality, but a Savior - God come to earth. And that way to heaven OM that He alone provides is a narrow road. You must come to salvation on His terms not yours.<BR/><BR/>May I encourage you to please read carefully today the gospel of John and the epistle of 1 John. Then I would ask you read Matthew chapter 7. I will pray for you, if you are Mormon and don't know the Lord Jesus, that He would grant you saving faith and the godly sorrow over your sin that leads to repentance. Trust in Christ alone; come to the end of yourself; take up your cross and follow Him; confess Jesus as Lord and believe that God has raised Him from the dead.<BR/><BR/>He alone is the resurrection and the life--there is hope in no other.<BR/><BR/>Grace and peace,<BR/>Steve<BR/>2 Cor. 4:5-7SJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-84443500972300292612007-12-24T09:52:00.000-05:002007-12-24T09:52:00.000-05:00Thank you Steve Camp for an honest reporting of Jo...Thank you Steve Camp for an honest reporting of Joel Osteen. I know that you have spoken with Osteen in the past, and have confirmed what it seems to the rest of us - that he is a very nice guy. Unfortunately though, heretics don't walk around with easily identifiable horns sticking out of their head; sometimes they are very kind people.<BR/><BR/>We've come to expect this from some of our nation's largest churches. TD Jakes is another one, and even if you put aside his modalism (as the Emergents would have us do), we are still left with his statements about Jesus saying "I have other sheep" relating not to gentiles - but other world religions! Again, another "nice guy" though; remember President Bush standing arm and arm with him after helping all of those Katrina victims?Jim Bublitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16888150295999667219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-44802853929276670492007-12-24T09:28:00.000-05:002007-12-24T09:28:00.000-05:00Time and again Joel Osteen has shown himself to be...Time and again Joel Osteen has shown himself to be a false teacher. Plus I do not accept , well he has little training argument. All he has to do is open a book or go to some excellent web sites like Desiring God ,Modern Reformation ,James White etc... He seems to want to be all things to all men and has no time for the truth of the gospel! Money speaks very loud I think!!Reg Schofieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02347354287384413436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-53434085165682486702007-12-24T09:26:00.000-05:002007-12-24T09:26:00.000-05:00Open Mind, you asked - "Why do you find a need to ...Open Mind, you asked - <BR/>"Why do you find a need to criticize Mormons and now criticize anyone who may seem to you to be kind or sympathetic to Mormons?"<BR/><BR/>Answer - The Mormon cult teaches and preaches doctrines of demons. The Mormon cult DECEIVES people. The DECEPTIVE teachings are meant cause human beings to miss the mark. By believing the FALSE doctrines of the demonic Mormon cult the souls of the deceived will face the wrath of God and will be condemned to an eternity separated from Him, in hell. <BR/><BR/>Open Mind, there is only one Gospel - learn it, share it.LivingDusthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08720875895794590283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-78530717865513243932007-12-24T02:18:00.000-05:002007-12-24T02:18:00.000-05:00Open Mind It is not about fear or who is right or ...Open Mind <BR/><BR/>It is not about fear or who is right or wrong, it is simply about truth. We are concerned about the eternal condition of the soul of those who hold to the Mormon system of beliefs, it is simply a lie, and the fruit of what you call no threat shows that, if you actually care to look at the Mormon faith. The fact is that those that are Mormons are on a broad road to destruction, they need to be saved, so do you!<BR/>By the way, show your profile so we know who we are talking with please.gigantor1231https://www.blogger.com/profile/13329932791380481665noreply@blogger.com