tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post5473328825292780741..comments2024-03-24T03:21:03.154-04:00Comments on CAMPONTHIS: WHAT IS THE MISSIONAL CHURCH?...a brief look at how the NT church in our day might functionSJ Camphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-48646762416740016982009-10-15T17:03:24.332-04:002009-10-15T17:03:24.332-04:00About point 4--the concern for doctine as Aaron Fe...About point 4--the concern for doctine as Aaron Fenlason--leads ono doctrine not pragmatics. I agree it can't be led on pragmatics. I would say it leads on Biblical Theology not doctrine. As a matter of fact it challenges the doctrines that are rooted more in a modern scholasticism than the Bible.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00944416688792721161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-27339884558447401932009-08-08T06:14:00.000-04:002009-08-08T06:14:00.000-04:00Brad
Ministry that is really cross cultural is pro...<b>Brad</b><br /><i>Ministry that is really cross cultural is probably the the central thing that defines missional, but the main thing needed today in the church (and missions) is to get back to scripture, for doctrine and practice.</i><br /><br />I couldn't agree more. Thank you for your thoughts on this important issue.SJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-28976829189666072192009-08-07T19:50:30.921-04:002009-08-07T19:50:30.921-04:00As a missionary, my perspective takes note of the ...As a missionary, my perspective takes note of the loss of the meaning of the word (mission)as a result of our struggling with the question of how to do ministry. Ministry that is really cross cultural is probably the the central thing that defines missional, but the main thing needed today in the church (and missions) is to get back to scripture, for doctrine and practice. Thank you so much for your efforts in focusing on how our ministry methods can and should glorify our Lord by biblically trusting Him and His word.Brad Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16984333248858251987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-9388243946713962742009-08-06T23:01:13.499-04:002009-08-06T23:01:13.499-04:00Don
Thank you my brother. Always good to have you ...<b>Don</b><br />Thank you my brother. Always good to have you weigh in here on these issues.SJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-39582355850106999902009-08-06T23:00:36.213-04:002009-08-06T23:00:36.213-04:00eric
Are you commenting on the current "Missi...<b>eric</b><br /><i>Are you commenting on the current "Missional Church" movement. or are you commenting in general on the N.T. church.</i><br /><br />Both. The NT church as the model; the current Missional Church discussion as movement. I tried to weave them together based upon biblical foundation and considering the times in which we live.<br /><br />Good question. Thank you.<br />SteveSJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-11713150248560213332009-08-06T20:16:43.729-04:002009-08-06T20:16:43.729-04:00Are you commenting on the current
"Missional ...Are you commenting on the current<br />"Missional Church" movement.<br />or are you commenting in general on the N.T. church.Eric Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789049874227384621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-71970874628966438672009-08-06T12:07:40.544-04:002009-08-06T12:07:40.544-04:00Another verse came to me: "But he [Jesus] ans...Another verse came to me: "But he [Jesus] answered, “It is written,<br /><br />“‘Man shall not live by bread alone,<br />but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”" Matt. 4:4<br /><br />Charis & Eirene.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-69870039909180694092009-08-06T12:01:27.757-04:002009-08-06T12:01:27.757-04:00"It is also really listening to their views....."It is also really listening to their views.." <br /><br />There's a skill I rarely find in myself, and in the Church.<br /><br />And when I find a Christian who is a good listener, he at the same time, will be less willing to speak the truth, but simply listen and nod his head, and pray.<br /><br />That is how I am at times.<br /><br />Other times I'm way to focused o what I'm gonna say, and I'm not listening.<br /><br />Other times, the Holy Spirit helps me be a compassionate witness for Christ, as I listen, and even ask questions, and then with a grateful heart share the good news of Jesus Christ.<br /><br />Great post Steve. Excellent thoughts really. Thanks.<br /><br /><br />"It means we need to be passionately in the Scriptures all the more.." -Dan<br /><br />And so many in the Church today have lost this passion, or hunger.<br />I pray with all my heart that God would plant a hunger in the hearts and souls of His people, like never before. Amen.<br /><br />" Your words were found, and I ate them,<br />and your words became to me a joy<br />and the delight of my heart,<br />for I am called by your name,<br />O Lord, God of hosts." Jer. 15:16donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-87236229018917045952009-08-06T11:01:48.226-04:002009-08-06T11:01:48.226-04:00kevin in manila
wrestling with this "missiona...<b>kevin in manila</b><br /><i>wrestling with this "missional" concept--it hopefully means we are seriously considering how to live out the Great Commission.</i><br /><br />That is my heart as well. Thx for your thoughts.<br />SteveSJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-63832909492626079812009-08-06T09:55:36.350-04:002009-08-06T09:55:36.350-04:00Regarding Number 10 on your list: I believe a corr...Regarding Number 10 on your list: I believe a correct knowledge of the the roll of God in salvation is crucial in evangelism. However, I find that those that claim to be of the synergistic point of view are really monergistic in their understanding; it takes the touch of God to bring the sinner into the kingdom. They usually use talking points in their proclamations that you hear about free will and compelling those to come to Christ. Who can forget Peter on the day of Pentecost exhorting the people to “Save yourselves from this crooked generation”. Was Peter wrong in his proclamation? I don't think so. For there were those that should be saved that were saved in the group of hearers that day. So, in my opinion a synergistic church can be successful for the kingdom. However, I do believe a wholly monergistic church will produce better disciples in the long run.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-83308361735163505402009-08-06T01:21:03.466-04:002009-08-06T01:21:03.466-04:00Hey Steve!
Thought I would post a response. To me...Hey Steve!<br /><br />Thought I would post a response. To me, ultimately "missional" does equal the Great Commission. I think it is more of how we go about it. But I would agree, it equals the Great Commission. <br /><br />As a church planter, the way I view missional is that everything we do and decide on revolves around mission/evangelism. Like it would if a missionary is overseas and going about day to day living as a missionary. <br /><br />The church staff I was previously on definitely had "evangelism" but it was more of a program of the church and events now and then vs. a holistic approach to church as a missionary church would in another culture. <br /><br />Until I REALLY grasped that we are missionaries here in USA - it was more of a slice of the pie approach. Where when we truly saw ourselves and church plant as mission like overseas it became or whole philosophy and threaded through everything.<br /><br />Now, interestingly when you think of missional in this way, it means we worship God all the more passionately in desperation and awe of the one we are serving on mission. It means we cannot help but pray more like a missionary does in another culture for wisdom and strength. It means we need community with other believers all the more as we are in the world on mission and need each others prayers, encouragement support. It means we need to be passionately in the Scriptures all the more - as we are faced with questions raised, how to address situations that arise - as a result of mission. So it forces us to be students of the Word all the more.<br /><br />Anyway, those are some thoughts about "missional". Hope all is well!!<br /><br />DanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-55942171998886031702009-08-05T21:30:57.683-04:002009-08-05T21:30:57.683-04:00Good thoughts, Steve. I'm really excited that ...Good thoughts, Steve. I'm really excited that many are wrestling with this "missional" concept--it hopefully means we are seriously considering how to live out the Great Commission.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05277364381136109821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-86091911092077036882009-08-05T19:56:22.021-04:002009-08-05T19:56:22.021-04:00It's a good thing that I'm Southern Baptis...It's a good thing that I'm Southern Baptist! Is there an additional discount for being reformed?<br /><br />P.s. I don't think that you should have inserted the word "friend".Aaron Fenlasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06096337319262257443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-56714661482302847822009-08-05T19:22:54.457-04:002009-08-05T19:22:54.457-04:00Steve,
Great blog...truth is you could leave it wi...Steve,<br />Great blog...truth is you could leave it with #15 and say all that needs to be said.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267788309365806565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-34048677884643714572009-08-05T18:29:12.326-04:002009-08-05T18:29:12.326-04:00ostrakinow
One thing I would add to your list is t...<b>ostrakinow</b><br /><i>One thing I would add to your list is that the Missional Church puts a high priority of active mercy by readily and continually meeting the immediate needs of the poor and disadvantaged.</i><br /><br />Fully agree. Thank you!SJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-89609972263060138462009-08-05T18:27:59.009-04:002009-08-05T18:27:59.009-04:00Aaron
Thank you for your encouragement.
Oh, and w...<b>Aaron</b><br />Thank you for your encouragement.<br /><br /><i>Oh, and where can I get my own Ed Stetzer???</i><br /><br />Wal-Mart. 2 for 1 special for Southern Baptists only. Closes out October 31st. :-).SJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-39625956104906933692009-08-05T18:26:27.290-04:002009-08-05T18:26:27.290-04:00Fusion!
...in the Reformed Camp (I'm SBC as we...<b>Fusion!</b><br /><i>...in the Reformed Camp (I'm SBC as well) should do well to see the ways the gospel takes us out of ourselves and into the real world.</i><br /><br />AMEN! We need to be shaken and stirred from our pre-planned agendas and comfort zone. The gospel means that we must live dangerously but not recklessly. IOW, complete abandon to the Lord Jesus Christ.SJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-40566409273094937362009-08-05T18:18:01.860-04:002009-08-05T18:18:01.860-04:00Great beginning.
The issue here is one of ontolog...Great beginning.<br /><br />The issue here is one of ontology. Most of us just borrow one and/or assume it; but developing the right ontology of the church is everything.<br /><br />Here's a proposition I borrowed from Craig Van Gelder - <br /><br />The church is X.<br />The church does what it is.<br />The church organizes what it does.<br /><br />The value of X changes the entirety of all that we do as being who we are.<br /><br />After our intense work here in post-Katrina land we are completely done with 'business as usual' as far as church is concerned. The overly-rich, spoiled and inwardly focused churchianty model of existence makes us ill for it is self-absorbed and over-inflated.<br /><br />We waste so much time, energy and resources on so many things all the while our own backyard communities need much.<br /><br />One thing I would add to your list is that the Missional Church puts a high priority of active mercy by readily and continually meeting the immediate needs of the poor and disadvantaged.<br /><br />I look forward to more discussion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-37760762537936422592009-08-05T18:00:00.534-04:002009-08-05T18:00:00.534-04:00Well said. I especially like point number 4 on lea...Well said. I especially like point number 4 on leading with doctrine and not pragmatics.<br /><br />Oh, and where can I get my own Ed Stetzer???Aaron Fenlasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06096337319262257443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-5582549501944957862009-08-05T17:50:54.072-04:002009-08-05T17:50:54.072-04:00my own blog I have tried (and failed) to live by t...my own blog I have tried (and failed) to live by this model. However, I do think more and more of us who find ourselves in the Reformed Camp (I'm SBC as well) should do well to see the ways the gospel takes us out of ourselves and into the real world.frankfusionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05662401108747483123noreply@blogger.com