tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post112783375741003232..comments2024-03-24T03:21:03.154-04:00Comments on CAMPONTHIS: Everyone Deserves a Mulligan...sometimes you just need another swing at the ballSJ Camphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-28528167300214569922013-05-22T16:46:01.729-04:002013-05-22T16:46:01.729-04:00Hi Steve - greetings from South Africa. I'm a ...Hi Steve - greetings from South Africa. I'm a reformed pastor in George, Southern Cape. We've just held a week of Pentecost services at our church where Reverend Jaco Strydom preached. His organization is called Echo Youth development. Their credo is: "Don't tell them Jesus Loves them, until you're ready to love them too." I told him that I know your song, and we sang it during some of the services. 3 Questions: 1. can we post our singing of the song online? 2. We'd like to record the song in a studio. Who do we contact for permission? 3. Untill we record the song for our congregation - can we post a mp3 of your 1988 version of the song on our church website? THANK YOU FOR YOUR MUSIC & MINISTRY. Francois Mulder - francois@blancogemeente.co.zaFrancois Mulderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12019645531257490910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-20461104631997630222013-05-06T04:13:35.118-04:002013-05-06T04:13:35.118-04:00Greetings in the name of Christ,
Steve - you are ...Greetings in the name of Christ,<br /><br />Steve - you are a good writer - I find it easy to follow your clear writing style. I pray I can write as clearly as you.<br /><br />I pray you can help me out...<br /><br />My name is Andrew Bain and I live in Orlando FL with my wife and children.<br /><br />We cannot find a congregation to fellowship here with.<br /><br />All the congregations require me to subscribe to a man-made fallible doctrine-of-man human-tradition creed in order to become a member and one day maybe a deacon.<br /><br />God willing, I'm interested in congregations around the world where I can be baptized and become a member/deacon and the Word of God can be my only creed.<br /><br />If you would be so kind to call me on 4079149059 that would be helpful.<br /><br />A filthy leper saved only by the perfect obedience and shed blood of the chosen anointed son of God, Jesus Christ,<br /><br />Andrew Bain<br />onlyGodisgood7@gmail.com<br />http://psalms.pbwiki.com<br />http://youtube.com/andrewcbain<br />http://Godnoliar.com<br />http://facebook.com/BainAndrew<br /><br />The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the<br />ROMANS<br />-- Literal Translation of the Holy Bible - Copyright 1976 - 2000 --<br />Chapter: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 |<br />[Bible Menu]<br /><br />Romans 1<br />1 Paul, a slave of Jesus Christ, a called apostle, separated to the gospel of God,<br />2 which He promised before through His prophets in the holy Scriptures,<br />3 concerning His Son who came of the seed of David according to flesh,<br />4 who was marked out the Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection of the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord;<br />5 by whom we received grace and apostleship to obedience of faith among all the nations, for His name's sake,<br />6 among whom are you also, called-out ones of Jesus Christ;<br />7 to all those who are in Rome, beloved of God, called-out saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.<br />8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of in all the world.<br /><br /><br /><br />[Top] - [Bible Menu]<br /><br />Order the limp leather version at Christian Literature World.<br /><br />Scripture taken from the Literal Translation of the Holy Bible<br />Copyright 1976 - 2000<br />By Jay P. Green, Sr.<br />Used by permission of the copyright holder<br />Courtesy of Sovereign Grace Publishers and Christian Literature World<br /><br />[Policy for Reprint & Quoting from the Literal Translation]Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07980789241121549806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-28081387736568535192013-02-20T12:14:02.603-05:002013-02-20T12:14:02.603-05:00As one of those "master" salesmen, I do ...As one of those "master" salesmen, I do see some similarities between sales and preaching, whether it is the Gospel of Jesus Christ or a sermon to the congregation. Both professions engage the emotion of the individual when done properly. However, I agree with Steve on this. We are to buy the truth, and SELL IT NOT.<br /><br />I used to believe that all of life was some form of sale, the only thing different was the currency used for payment. For example, my then 5-year-old daughter SOLD me my vacation plans based on an emotional connection and the features and benefits that most appealed to me. However, I have come to a new conclusion about this.<br /><br />"Sales skill" is descended from the communication skills employed by the seers and prophets of old. They were not paid well, they were often mocked (Daniel), persecuted (Elisha), or even killed (Jeremiah). Seems like poor commission to me as a sales professional. They had something else - a call from God Himself. It is God that supplied the message and gave these men (and many others) the power to communicate them in a life-changing way (or close the sale, to use sales terminology).<br /><br />What I now am beginning to see (after something like 28 years) is that life is all about communicating the message that God gave each one of us. How we deliver it may change, but it is not a form of sales. It is the other way around.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13082124075391140277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127962856062917482005-09-28T23:00:00.000-04:002005-09-28T23:00:00.000-04:00It seems to me that if everyone in the family is c...It seems to me that if everyone in the family is correctly focusing on Jesus Christ, there won't be much need for "Focus on the Family".Sparkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03428323970838259636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127943175286905912005-09-28T17:32:00.000-04:002005-09-28T17:32:00.000-04:00I saw this quote from HB a little while ago, and I...I saw this quote from HB a little while ago, and I was shocked (only a little, actually, considering the source). I am glad you took this up here. I shouted from the pulpit several weeks ago...focus on the family, no...focus on the faith! Your Tozer inclusion was right on the mark, had that in my office since the start..God bless you, and remember, they are not the enemy, but victims of the enemy. Concerning Calvinism and apostasy, think about 1 Corinthians 6:17..there is a reason some don't get it. Maranatha!Even So...https://www.blogger.com/profile/14208866122431178938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127930631788241732005-09-28T14:03:00.000-04:002005-09-28T14:03:00.000-04:00Steve,A little help here please:What is the defini...Steve,<BR/>A little help here please:<BR/>What is the definition of 'Evangelical' as it is used here?<BR/><BR/>I consider myself to be 'Evangelical' by the 'Barna Group' definition.<BR/>I have a 'Christian World View'<BR/>I believe the sufficiency of the Scriptures (alone), Salvation by grace, through faith (alone)...<BR/><BR/>It is the duty of all believers to fulfill the Great Commission...<BR/><BR/>So what I'm asking is because it is 'obvious' that 'Evangelical' is defined somewhat differently here... Particularly it is not a 'flattering' term...<BR/><BR/>ThanksUnchained Slavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11878050928426060918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127924886584171352005-09-28T12:28:00.000-04:002005-09-28T12:28:00.000-04:00Tim, I used Billy Graham because he is the only pe...Tim, <BR/><BR/>I used Billy Graham because he is the only person I could think of that everyone on the forum would be aquainted with. Do you know who Sam Kennedy, Gary Simpson or Ken Swanson are? I doubt it. <BR/><BR/>Each of those men are gifted evangelists that I either do currently or have known personally in the past and all of them either currently is or has been a very successful salesman, which was my point. For some reason good salesmen also tend to make good evangelists. <BR/><BR/>I should also add that of those three men only one, to my current knowledge, makes his living from the preaching of the gospel. The other two are laymen that God just pours out of and at least one of them lives quite comfortably because of their success as a salesmen.<BR/><BR/>Finally Tim you seem to have missed my primary point, which is (and I am making a blanket statement), that evangelicalism is a commodified form of Chrisitianity. There are those who are who are fighting this, such as the owner of this blog, but the point remains.<BR/><BR/>I could ramble on, but replying in book forum is forbidden on this site. Suffice it to say that, in my opinion, Evangelicalism has become a reflection of Capitalism and this is being maintained and perpetuated by the evangelical publishing industry which is located almost exclusively in the United States of America, the most proudly capitialist nation in the entire world. American culture is influencing how the Body of Christ practices Christianity and that is the problem, not any one person.Jeffreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02902455200310006506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127878829644442502005-09-27T23:40:00.000-04:002005-09-27T23:40:00.000-04:00>I agree with you Campi, Skubalon! ah ha ha ah ha ...>I agree with you Campi, Skubalon!<BR/> ah ha ha ah ha ha ha ha! Warm hearty guffawic LOL's. Who can forget the Skubalon?<BR/><BR/>Ah I agree in that you agree with the Sledgmeister. Yes indeed, the ends always justify the means.Bhedrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08091896907803479900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127876436114658542005-09-27T23:00:00.000-04:002005-09-27T23:00:00.000-04:00Yes sir, Farmboy!Now, let every man called of God ...Yes sir, Farmboy!<BR/><BR/>Now, let every man called of God to "preach the word" (2 Tim. 4), do so in said manner. Undaunted, faithful exposition of God's word is ALWAYS God-glorifying, and NEVER returns void.<BR/> <BR/>By the way....doing the above will keep you far away from that 'camp' that 'campi' is referring to, and instead, leaves you as one obedient to the directives of God.dogpreacherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14126765017002042276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127875602829186972005-09-27T22:46:00.000-04:002005-09-27T22:46:00.000-04:00rene,You said,"All the best evangelists I know of ...rene,<BR/><BR/>You said,<BR/>"All the best evangelists I know of (except for one and his life and preaching...) are all either very successful salesmen or were very successful salesmen before going into ministry. Even Billy Graham, as I understand it, set multiple sales records for the Fuller Brush company before he became an evangelist."<BR/><BR/>Well, I must say who are these "best" evangelists? Billy Graham does not top my list. He doesn't even get the gospel right. His is a decisional regeneration gospel. It is not intended to save, but to make one feel good. As a matter of fact, he has been quoted as saying he preaches the same gospel as the pope. That's from his own mouth. The best evangelists are those who put the word of God and the glory of God first, because to be quite honest, every preacher does not necessarily preach to people first, but to God. The lost are simply those who are the dry bones who are at the mercy of God and in need of His resurrecting power. <BR/><BR/><BR/>You also said, "Before you dismiss me I should share that I have a Bachelors in Economics and I am a Christian. In short, I am familiar with both economic systems and Scripture and trust me it is extemely simple, as evidenced by Mr. London, to reduce Evangelicalism to nothing more than a capitalist take on the Bible."<BR/><BR/>Sadly, I don't trust you. But I do trust Peter when he said in 2 Peter 2 that one of the big marks of those who are false teachers is that they do what they do for money and sexual favors. We have already seen some of the sexual issues come out of FOTF and I think the money issue has been on the table for many years.<BR/><BR/>I last listend to FOTF many years ago. I turned it off, when after a tremendous testimony by a husband and wife of their conversion and God's work in their lives, was followed by Dobson who said, and I paraphrase, "People should go to the Word and it will change their lives, but when the Word doesn't work, they should seek outside professional help." That my brothers and sisters, quite plainly is talking out of both sides of you mouth.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07501824179760999458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127870770469226122005-09-27T21:26:00.000-04:002005-09-27T21:26:00.000-04:00Pretty good for a farmboy.Pretty good for a farmboy.Jeremy Weaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02552780649310262425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127867150785322732005-09-27T20:25:00.000-04:002005-09-27T20:25:00.000-04:00Analogies can be helpful provided they are not pus...Analogies can be helpful provided they are not pushed too far and are on point regarding the topic being examined. Using this standard, how does the comparison of evangelicalism with capitalism measure up?<BR/><BR/>Economic systems are mechanisms for allocating resources. On one extreme are centralized economies where the resource allocation decisions are made by central planners. The central planners base their decisions on the information they have access to and on their preferences.<BR/><BR/>On the other extreme are decentralized economies where resource allocation decisions are made by individuals as each individual trades on the information he/she has access to and on his/her preferences.<BR/><BR/>Though there are many differences between centralized and decentralized economies, there are two important similarities for purposes of the topic under discussion:<BR/><BR/>1) In each system human desires (preferences) are sovereign. In a centralized system it is the desires of the central planners, while in a decentralized system it is the desires of the individuals who trade in the market.<BR/><BR/>2) Centralized systems concentrate power in the hands of the central planners, while decentralized systems disperse power amongst all the individuals who trade in the market.<BR/><BR/>Given what the Bible reveals about fallen human nature and hence the preferences of fallen human beings, is it a surprise that Christians will disagree with the preference driven outcomes of either centralized or decentralized systems?<BR/><BR/>Given what the Bible reveals about fallen human nature and hence the consequences of investing too much power with any group of human beings, can a Christian conclude that a decentralized system is useful for limiting the concentration of power in a group of fallen human beings?<BR/><BR/>Protestantism is more decentralized, while Catholicism is more centralized. To the extent that relatively decentralized evangelical Protestants depart for what the Bible teaches, they substitute human preferences for Divine directives. Likewise, to the extent that relatively centralized Catholics depart from what the Bible teaches, they also substitute human preferences for Divine directives. Christians should disapprove of either departure. Examples of Catholics substituting human methods for Divine directives are just as easy to find as examples of evangelical Protestants doing the same.<BR/><BR/>Given the above, I'm unsure how helpful the economic analogy is for understanding the topic under discussion. A faithful servant is not necessarily the same thing as a good salesman. After completing a couple of church growth classes and reading way too many church growth books, I was left with the following thought: According to modern church growth standards the Old Testament prophets were abysmal failures. As an example, Jeremiah ministered for approximately forty-five years and few people listened to his message. Jeremiah was a bad salesman but a faithful servant. As Isaiah 55:8-9 notes, God's thoughts are not the thoughts of human beings, and God's ways are not the ways of human beings. It's a recipe for disaster to organize evangelism based on human thoughts and ways.<BR/><BR/>Given all the other doctrinal problems with Catholicism, there's little reason to focus on doctrinal problems present in organizational issues. However, the Protestant reformation was all about recovering the gospel, the good news, the evangel. As theological descendents of that reformation, evangelical Protestants need to make sure that the methods we use to proclaim the gospel are God's methods, not man's. Unfortunately, Focus on the Family has missed this eternally significant point.<BR/><BR/>As a postscript, economics is about people and the choices they make (Gwartney, Stroup, Sobel and Macpherson). When a person combines the tools and methods of economics with all that the Bible reveals about the desires and preferences of fallen human beings, he/she can understand much of the behavior that he/she observes in the world. Given that redeemed children of God (Christians) have a radically new set of desires and preferences (2 Corinthians 5:17), a person can use the tools and methods of economics to understand how Christians should behave differently from non-Christians. In this sense, biblical economics is not completely comfortable with either conservative economics or liberal economics.<BR/><BR/>Not that it makes any of the above points any more persuasive, but along with earning a masters degree in economics and a doctoral degree in business, I have also earned a masters degree in theology. As a professor at an evangelical Protestant college I am afforded the opportunity to use these studies as I ponder what it means to see and understand business and economics from a distinctly Christian perspective.farmboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05445789397476595536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127865798172958632005-09-27T20:03:00.000-04:002005-09-27T20:03:00.000-04:00Okay, I'm more than a little bit "teed-off" at Mr....Okay, I'm more than a little bit "teed-off" at Mr. London's presumptuous assertions (I'm shooting from the ladies' tee, of course). ; ) <BR/><BR/>This is so disconcerting, I feel like someone shouted at me during my backswing, and now I'm searching for my ball in the rough.<BR/><BR/>As you stated, Sledgebo, "philosophy" is a "theory," (by one of Webster's classic definitions). Let's substitute the word, "theory" for "philosophy" in the following quote, just to see how it looks in print: <BR/><BR/><I>"We have a <B>'theory'</B> to sell."</I> <BR/><BR/>A Christian minister referring to the gospel as a "theory?" How offensive is that? So, all this time, we've been following a "theoretical Savior?"<BR/><BR/>As for screaming "bad form" in response to "Mo' Converts, Mo' People, Mo' Money," <I>(my paraphrase),</I> just yell, "fore," and everybody duck, because Mr. London's shot was way out of control! Insinuating that to be good pastors or ministers you should be nothing more than "pastorpreneurs" or "ministerpreneurs"; that pastors should measure their "success" by the sizes of their membership roll and their bankroll? Incredible!<BR/><BR/>Try again, H.B., the gallery is waiting!<BR/><BR/>(Next time, I'll try to dispense with the golf metaphors--sorry). : )littlegal_66https://www.blogger.com/profile/09424599483109788899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127853084842779442005-09-27T16:31:00.000-04:002005-09-27T16:31:00.000-04:00I do not mean to rain on your parade, but Mr. Lond...I do not mean to rain on your parade, but Mr. London is correct.<BR/><BR/>Evangelicalism is a capitalist interpetation of scripture. The fact that it promotes itself as a biblical, and I would argue does make a sincere effort at being such is beside the point. Evangelicalism and Capitialism rose to prominence together and even if it was not in the beginning Evangelicalism has become a Capitalist interpetation of scripture.<BR/><BR/>Do I have something better to offer? No. To play on Winston Churchill, I believe it was, "Democracy (or Evangelicalism) is the worst form of government (or interpretation of scripture) except for all the others".<BR/><BR/>All the best evangelists I know of (except for one and his life and preaching...) are all either very successful salesmen or were very successful salesmen before going into ministry. Even Billy Graham, as I understand it, set multiple sales records for the Fuller Brush company before he became an evangelist.<BR/><BR/>Before you dismiss me I should share that I have a Bachelors in Economics and I am a Christian. In short, I am familiar with both economic systems and Scripture and trust me it is extemely simple, as evidenced by Mr. London, to reduce Evangelicalism to nothing more than a capitalist take on the Bible.Jeffreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02902455200310006506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127852198569546372005-09-27T16:16:00.000-04:002005-09-27T16:16:00.000-04:00I agree with you Campi, Skubalon!It still amazes m...I agree with you Campi, Skubalon!<BR/>It still amazes me to see the influence money has on today's ministers! What a condemnation of American Christendom (not Christianity). When you step back and look at this objectively we have become very much like Tetzel, selling forgiveness of sins. <BR/>But the profit margin is good...Jeremy Weaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02552780649310262425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127850788162627952005-09-27T15:53:00.000-04:002005-09-27T15:53:00.000-04:00Good analogy! Cotton Candy Christianity - what an...Good analogy! Cotton Candy Christianity - what an unfortunate combination of words.<BR/><BR/>This is the saddening affect of an Arminian gospel - we take credit for souls being saved due to our methods and salesmanship. Unbelievable.<BR/><BR/>Sparks... I don't know? In the world of pragmatics anything goes--the ends always justify the means. The ends in this case... making a sales pitch.<BR/><BR/>Pastor Brett--always good to see you on this blog brother. I appreciate all you are doing for the kingdom!<BR/><BR/>Grace and peace to you all,<BR/><BR/>Having more fun than a Reformed Baptist should be allowed,<BR/>CampiSJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127850455696379272005-09-27T15:47:00.000-04:002005-09-27T15:47:00.000-04:00Why is a Christian, evangelical Pastor of over 30 ...Why is a Christian, evangelical Pastor of over 30 years giving interviews to the publication of a cult like the Christian Scientists, thus giving the appearance of credibility to the organization?Sparkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03428323970838259636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127842886452012652005-09-27T13:41:00.000-04:002005-09-27T13:41:00.000-04:00Wow, I'm the first to respond?? Woohoo :-).Indeed...Wow, I'm the first to respond?? Woohoo :-).<BR/><BR/>Indeed, how sad this is. Thanks again Brother Steve for stand, faithfulness, and love for Christ, His church, His word, His blessed gospel. Your Blog ministry is a blessing to me and our church.<BR/><BR/>Pastor Bret Lovitz<BR/>www.gracefellowshipmh.orgPester Brathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383780745492911780noreply@blogger.com