tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post112719022755492243..comments2024-03-24T03:21:03.154-04:00Comments on CAMPONTHIS: BREAKFAST AT THE BASILICA...are these eggs really safe? avoiding Romanistic "salmonella"SJ Camphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-88792619394832536252008-09-26T22:10:00.000-04:002008-09-26T22:10:00.000-04:00However, the fact that you appeared to rather arro...<I>However, the fact that you appeared to rather arrogantly dismiss and "ceremonialize" what is indeed an excommunication and the fact there IS excommunication without a Papal pronouncement of ANATHEMA appeared a bit disingenuous and, thus, dishonest, to him.</I><BR/><BR/>I can understand that. I certainly didn't mean to be either arrogant or dishonest. If you or he would rather, my e-mail is jbmartin (at) nwi (dot) net.Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02238001380092215123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-29213571663049475982008-09-25T15:01:00.000-04:002008-09-25T15:01:00.000-04:00Initial post deleted to correct a plethora of typo...Initial post deleted to correct a plethora of typos - geesh, I really still feel lousy today.-Deb<BR/><BR/><B>Joel:</B> <I>"But does it matter to you that you are barred from receiving sacraments?"</I><BR/><BR/>Joel, this is Deb. My husband has been called out of town on business (and I'm a down bit with some kind of virus).<BR/><BR/>He can - and will with considerably less virtual verbosity than I usually do - answer for himself when he returns - and while I normally function as his faithful scribe Baruch when I'm feeling up to it insomuch as typing goes, he's quite well able to discuss Romanism from a very learned, equally personal viewpoint.<BR/><BR/>That said, I can attest to the fact that being excommunicated and ineligible to receive Romanist sacraments doesn't matter to him.<BR/><BR/>However, the fact that you appeared to rather arrogantly dismiss and "ceremonialize" what is indeed an excommunication <B>and</B> the fact there IS excommunication <B><I>without</I></B> a Papal pronouncement of <B>ANATHEMA</B> appeared a bit disingenuous and, thus, dishonest, to him.<BR/><BR/>Pardon if his further response is delayed. He'll engage further as soon as he gets back home.Deb_Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03550673007910547814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-70170270887290554132008-09-25T14:18:00.000-04:002008-09-25T14:18:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Deb_Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03550673007910547814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-43522250243812855732008-09-25T13:40:00.000-04:002008-09-25T13:40:00.000-04:00Just so we're clear, I do consider excommunication...Just so we're clear, I <I>do</I> consider excommunication more than symbolic, because I consider the sacraments to be the real thing and not mere symbols themselves. I'm curious, though (if I'm not being too nosy) why being excommunicated would make any difference to you. It wouldn't to Steve, because he's never ben in communion with the Church (as far as I know), and it would to me, because the sacraments are vital to my walk with the Lord. But does it matter to you that you are barred from receiving sacraments?Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02238001380092215123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-58746662446747892972008-09-25T12:03:00.000-04:002008-09-25T12:03:00.000-04:00you consider not being allowed to receive sacramen...<I>you consider not being allowed to receive sacraments just 'ceremonial'?</I><BR/><BR/>No, and I apologize. I was using the word "ceremonial" incorrectly. I meant, not "purely symbolic," but requiring a ceremony. An anathema is pronounced by the pope, against a specific individual, with a formal ritual. There are other kinds of excommunication, some of which require a formal action by the local bishop and some of which don't. You say you were excommunicated, and I have no reason to disbelieve you. But that's not necessarily the same as an anathema.<BR/><BR/><I>romanism says dead man must resurrect himself to help god save him.</I><BR/><BR/>Actually, the Council of Trent specifically says that he cannot resurrect himself.<BR/><BR/>"CANON I.-If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema."<BR/><BR/>The decree of Trent on justification is <A HREF="http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct06.html" REL="nofollow">here</A> if you'd like to know what it actually says. Just because I'm a Romanist doesn't mean I'm ignorant of Romanism. :)Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02238001380092215123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-25463556020251829932008-09-25T09:20:00.000-04:002008-09-25T09:20:00.000-04:00to point of issue. just to be clear.you consider n...to point of issue. just to be clear.<BR/><BR/>you consider not being allowed to receive sacraments just 'ceremonial'?<BR/><BR/>work awaits.Deb_Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03550673007910547814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-66538633942811805672008-09-25T08:39:00.000-04:002008-09-25T08:39:00.000-04:00"Better than the Catholic Encyclopedia? I'd be cur...<I>"Better than the Catholic Encyclopedia? I'd be curious about<BR/>your "anathema," Rich. I'm surprised the pope had time to do it. :)"</I><BR/><BR/>oic we weren't really exc'ed? you must play games. you cannot defend the indefensible.<BR/><BR/>i don't like to type. but a fool i'm not. romanism i know.<BR/><BR/>depraved man by nature is spiritually dead. dead in sins is not 'ceremonial' with god.<BR/><BR/>romanism says dead man must resurrect himself to help god save him. how does a spiritually dead man cooperate with god to save himsef?<BR/><BR/>explain what must one do to be saved by romanist standards?Deb_Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03550673007910547814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-17953962469753291582008-09-24T19:37:00.000-04:002008-09-24T19:37:00.000-04:00Better than the Catholic Encyclopedia? I'd be curi...Better than the Catholic Encyclopedia? I'd be curious about your "anathema," Rich. I'm surprised the pope had time to do it. :)<BR/><BR/><I>Anathema remains a major excommunication which is to be promulgated with great solemnity... The Roman Pontifical reproduces it in the chapter Ordo excommunicandi et absolvendi, distinguishing three sorts of excommunication: minor excommunication, formerly incurred by a person holding communication with anyone under the ban of excommunication; major excommunication, pronounced by the Pope in reading a sentence; and anathema, or the penalty incurred by crimes of the gravest order, and solemnly promulgated by the Pope. In passing this sentence, the pontiff is vested in amice, stole, and a violet cope, wearing his mitre, and assisted by twelve priests clad in their surplices and holding lighted candles. He takes his seat in front of the altar or in some other suitable place, amid pronounces the formula of anathema</I><BR/><BR/>It's not the same thing as an ordinary excommunication, which is conferred by the local bishop. (Unless it's automatically incurred, which may have been the case if you formally left the Church.)<BR/><BR/>Rich, I'm not playing games at all. I've commented here in the past to defend Catholic teachings or to clear up misconceptions, and I don't think I've ever said anything that cold be considered trollish. The anathema in the canon simply doesn't mean with Steve thinks it means.Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02238001380092215123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-44858670135152611962008-09-24T13:14:00.000-04:002008-09-24T13:14:00.000-04:00"It's a ceremonial xcommunication applied to an in...<I>"It's a ceremonial xcommunication applied to an individual. Since I'm fairly sure you've never undergone one, it doesn't apply to you per se. (Especially since it's not used anymore.)"</I><BR/><BR/>foolish. not ceremonial at all.<BR/><BR/>applies to me. i have been exc'ed. anathema means anathema. game playing, stop.<BR/><BR/>sorry sjc deb is better with words. romanism i know very well.<BR/><BR/>richDeb_Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03550673007910547814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-8868987462797802482008-09-24T13:01:00.000-04:002008-09-24T13:01:00.000-04:00I can, Steve. First, an anathema is not a blanket ...I can, Steve. <BR/><BR/>First, an <A HREF="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01455e.htm" REL="nofollow">anathema</A> is not a blanket condemnation nor automatically incurred. It's a ceremonial excommunication applied to an individual. Since I'm fairly sure you've never undergone one, it doesn't apply to you per se. (Especially since it's not used anymore.)<BR/><BR/>What the use of the word in the canons means is that any Catholic who persists in denying the doctrines defined at the council is subject to such an excommunication, not that it's already happened. It's to draw a sharp line between orthodox believers and heretics.<BR/><BR/>Second, the single canon you cited is very out of context by itself. The entire decree lays out the Catholic position on justification in detail, and the canons are more like a summary. They kind of anticipate the errors into which it's possible to fall on the subject so as to head them off. If you take into account the body of the decree rather than just the canons at the end, you'll find that while it's not Calvinist soteriology, it's also not the works-based system the single canon would make it appear to be.<BR/><BR/>Incidentally, even if the Church were to repeal the anathemas from Trent, it wouldn't be at a later council. Doctrines are determined by councils; penalties for heresy and such are a matter of canon law.Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02238001380092215123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-12734507231657577382008-09-23T10:57:00.000-04:002008-09-23T10:57:00.000-04:00JoelI have.Please answer this:SIXTH SESSION, CANON...<B>Joel</B><BR/>I have.<BR/><BR/>Please answer this:<BR/><BR/><B>SIXTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING JUSTIFICATION:</B> <I>"If anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works, but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of its increase, <B>LET HIM BE ANATHEMA"</B></I> <BR/><BR/>(Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 24).SJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-12740041625864957752008-09-21T03:09:00.000-04:002008-09-21T03:09:00.000-04:00My people raise themselves up with swords sharpene...My people raise themselves up with swords sharpened with words they do not understand, to draw blood they cannot drink. From where does the bread that poisons my people come, that they should find joy in the fruits they have thrown to the ground and tread upon. Why is it that wisdoms fails and the mercy shown them has not flourished, for out of the mouth they do vomit the bread rotten with discontent and evil in the eyes of the lord. The words of the spirit are the bread of life and the humble man shall have his fill....Psalmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03127968553603930155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-10099906406351686312008-09-19T20:01:00.000-04:002008-09-19T20:01:00.000-04:00Let's begin with how Vatican I and Vatican II stil...<I>Let's begin with how Vatican I and Vatican II still codifies Tridentine doctrine. Nothing has changed since Trent.</I><BR/><BR/>Trent, which affirmed that salvation is not earned by works. Steve, once again, you really should read Trent before you cite it.Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02238001380092215123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-37307943172000081932008-09-19T13:16:00.000-04:002008-09-19T13:16:00.000-04:00MatthewThank you for stopping by and for posting y...<B>Matthew</B><BR/>Thank you for stopping by and for posting your comment. It is appreciated.<BR/><BR/>If you were offended that was purely intentional. The correct Bill Murray quote from Ghostbusters is: <I>"we mock what we don't understand."</I> :-).<BR/><BR/>I believe the yoke would be on you my friend, but it isn't really funny at all. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, because of Christ alone. The Romanist apocryphal doctrines of faith + works; grace + merit; Christ + Rome is not the gospel - it is another gospel, it is anathema (Gal. 1:6-9; 5:1-3; Eph. 2:8-9).<BR/><BR/>Let's begin with how Vatican I and Vatican II still codifies Tridentine doctrine. Nothing has changed since Trent.<BR/><BR/>Still pounding on Wittenberg's Door.<BR/><BR/>Steve<BR/>Col. 3:23-24SJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-85272652237711301172008-09-19T12:59:00.000-04:002008-09-19T12:59:00.000-04:00Matthew,My husband indicates he is willing to dial...<B>Matthew</B>,<BR/><BR/>My husband indicates he is willing to dialogue with you privately if you wish to have such a discussion. He only asks your patience and willingness to do so around his work schedule (which is kind of off-beat, varying from the more typical M-F work routines).Deb_Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03550673007910547814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-43975905224871421822008-09-19T12:53:00.000-04:002008-09-19T12:53:00.000-04:00"You may end up with egg...on your face."Matthew, ...<I>"You may end up with egg...on your face."</I><BR/><BR/><B>Matthew</B>, I cannot concur. Neither does my beloved spouse, who was as educated and steeped in the works-oriented, legalist, semi-Pelagism of Romanism as it gets ... until God mercifully apprehended and saved him out of it.Deb_Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03550673007910547814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-89140068917385520672008-09-19T12:34:00.000-04:002008-09-19T12:34:00.000-04:00When you dont have a good argument then you have t...When you dont have a good argument then you have to mock. Just remember, you will have to answer to God for mocking His Church. Anytime you want to debate a real person with real arguments instead of just posting mocking egg jokes on your blog, you can email me at the CatholicChampion.com website. My email is on it. You may end up with egg...on your face.James Bellisariohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01786370386909499672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-63051268079305298212008-09-19T11:40:00.000-04:002008-09-19T11:40:00.000-04:00winslowladyReally clever... I might have to borrow...<B>winslowlady</B><BR/>Really clever... I might have to borrow some of those for the future.<BR/><BR/>"Eggs"-cellent!<BR/><BR/><B>Stephen</B><BR/>That is a priceless story. Is there a place online or a link to see those painted stone eggs?<BR/><BR/>Thanks bro,<BR/>SteveSJ Camphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15844201288864307481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-4858610964379536062008-09-19T11:17:00.000-04:002008-09-19T11:17:00.000-04:00Last week, on holiday, I was visiting Coфия (Sophi...Last week, on holiday, I was visiting Coфия (Sophia, Bulgaria) and went to see the great St. Alexander Nevski cathedral and saw the markets leading up to it, selling anything from souvenirs of Bulgaria to some long lost Nazi compas from the Second World War. I stumbled across a stall that was selling stone eggs with a painted saint on them. I thought it quite strange! You had anything from a saint to Jesus. The only difference here is that it is not a eating egg! Surely, if one would have to eat these they would surely gag and not recover!Atar Jacob Kashathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06412277385367172961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-40150911207113579432008-09-18T21:03:00.000-04:002008-09-18T21:03:00.000-04:00Eggscuse me but Rome's wealth has been ignored. S...Eggscuse me but Rome's wealth has been ignored. Some of the eggspensive and eggsciting eggs are being eggscluded.<BR/> <BR/>Eggs Sardou-mindless priests who are caught with Spinach in their teeth!<BR/><BR/>Broccoli Egg Timbales-those who appreciate the foul stench of incense during a mass.<BR/><BR/>and most Eggsquisite, <BR/><BR/>L'’Oeuf de Pouille (eggs with caviar)--the money and wealth of Rome paid to get people out of Purgatory. <BR/><BR/>Coddled Eggs--those who kneel by the pew and allow priests to pour boiling water of hell on them and they sit, and sit until they are done.<BR/><BR/>Shirred Eggs--girls being confirmed whose faces are veiled with white lace head pieces. <BR/> <BR/>Egg Fried Rice - Anyone who likes a little rice with their eggs. Can take the heat or have it mild.<BR/><BR/>Egg Salad Sandwiches--Southern Catholics who marry Baptists.<BR/><BR/>Egg Fu Yung - Charasmatic Catholics who follow eastern mystics.<BR/><BR/>Very Fun! :) Susanwinslowladyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04388798503554837307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-40722158309510444062008-09-18T19:00:00.000-04:002008-09-18T19:00:00.000-04:00This is a riot. Thanks for the levity, Steve! It...This is a riot. Thanks for the levity, Steve! It's a much needed reprieve.xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01342034767416095862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-6621979639438475722008-09-18T14:12:00.000-04:002008-09-18T14:12:00.000-04:00"It will just boost their "egg"o"But would that be...<I>"It will just boost their "egg"o"</I><BR/><BR/>But would that be "egg"o <B><I>syn</I></B>tonic or "egg"o <B><I>dys</I></B>tonic?<BR/><BR/>Eggs-istential, inquiring minds wanna know!<BR/><BR/>Re: <I>Fertilized Eggs</I><BR/><BR/>Requires Papal Bull for candling.Deb_Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03550673007910547814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-52782523920574167462008-09-18T14:01:00.000-04:002008-09-18T14:01:00.000-04:00"Sunny Side-Up"My beloved. [::contented sigh::]<B><I>"Sunny Side-Up"</I></B><BR/><BR/>My beloved. [::contented sigh::]Deb_Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03550673007910547814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127528640886091322005-09-23T22:24:00.000-04:002005-09-23T22:24:00.000-04:00Campi,I wonder if I might be "eggs"empt from Purga...Campi,<BR/><BR/>I wonder if I might be "eggs"empt from Purgatory if I wear a brown scapular? Oh, wait, I don't believe that stuff or the "shell" game played by those who do.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07501824179760999458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14012689.post-1127524265576583082005-09-23T21:11:00.000-04:002005-09-23T21:11:00.000-04:00Just don't tell John H"eggy" or Benny "Hen"It will...Just don't tell John H"eggy" or Benny "Hen"<BR/><BR/>It will just boost their "egg"oMariePhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16068136449955788896noreply@blogger.com